Non-snarling furled lines

[Paul Arnold]

I read Jason Klass's recent Tenkara USA blog post in which he praises the TUSA kevlar furled-line. As usual with Jason's work, I find nothing to disagree with. Yet, it might be worth mentioning here that the tenkara lines sold by Cutthroat Leaders are also non-snarling. Monofilament seems to be the villain that causes the snarling of furled lines, and neither Cutthroat nor TUSA Kevlar furled-lines contain monofilament. Cutthroat leaders are entirely made from UNI thread. Both the price difference and the shipping cost favor Cutthroat over TUSA. Cutthroat tenkara lines come in the buyer's choice of two weights. Incidentally, I have no connection with Cutthroat, commercial or otherwise.

[JohnScott]

Paul -

I'm not sure what you mean by "non-snarling" furled lines. I'm thinking it is all that twisting that you get when you put the line under considerable stress and then release the stress immediately ??

If that is what you mean, then I would find it strange that mono would present that problem due to the relative stiffness and low stretch characteristic of the material. But I don't have much experience with furled mono lines ( only the TenkaraUSA furled line ) so maybe I am missing the boat on this issue. I don't recall having a snarling problem with the Tenkara line, but that may just be because I haven't had the "right" situation, yet.

The thread furled lines that I have used all get all twisty when stressed and released. Not sure why a UNI leader wouldn't.

As far as Kevlar goes, it doesn't stretch, period. So I wouldn't think that it would get all twisty under any set of circumstances ?? I've only done a few Kevlar leaders and don't particularly like them. And the only leader I have ever broken while furling it was Kevlar. Put too much tension on it, and it literally broke. Couldn't hardly believe it, as strong as Kevlar is. But from one article I read, it seems that Kevlar is not so great when being twisted, which is probably why the leader I was furling broke.

John

[Paul Arnold]

John --

My apologies for using inexact language. When I said "snarling" I intended to describe what happens when you put stress on a furled leader, such as when pulling hard to break the tippet when your fly has hooked on a snag. I've seen that phenomenon referred to as knotting, which is not quite the right word either. Maybe "twisting" is a good word to use.

As I understand the situation, some furled-leaders made with thread also include a mono component. Mono stretches more than either thread or Kevlar, and I am told (I am no expert) that it is the stretching and unstretching of the mono component in a furled-line made with thread that causes it to snarl/knot/twist.

Kevlar, as I meant to convey earlier, does not stretch and that is why the current TUSA 3d generation lines do not snarl/knot/twist subsequent to tension and a release from tension. Jason makes that point in his blog post, and I agree with him, as usual.

For clarification, I do not believe that the fact that Cutthroat lines are made with UNI thread (rather than some other non-mono thread) is significant as to the snarl/knot/twist problem.

~ Paul

[NewTyer 1]

I use UNI Thread furled leaders and never have a problem with twisting. As long as your tippet strength is less than your leader than there should not be a problem because the tippet will break before the leader is put under to much stress.

[JohnScott]

Paul -

I am a bit surprised that mono would have more stretch than thread. But I have never done any tests personally to see how them compare. Maybe it is just that I have never stressed the one or two furled mono leaders I've used enough to cause that twisty condition.

NewTyer -

My references to thread furled leaders getting the twisty condition are based on using 4X through 2X tippet on a leader furled from Danville 210 FlyMaster Plus in a 10-8-6 configuration with a tip ring. Believe me, breaking off such tippet when the fly has snagged where it can't be reached to free it will cause a major case of the twisties. Yesterday I had occasion to break off a 4X tippet when I caught my fly in a tree on an errant backcast - and had the worse twisty condition I've seen in seven years of fishing that basic leader.

John

[CM_Stewart]

Just guessin' here, because I don't often fish furled lines and haven't furled myself in years, but John getting a case of the twisties with Danville FlyMaster and Paul not getting one with UNI-Thread is probably because FlyMaster is nylon (as is mono) and UNI-Thread is polyester, which doesn't stretch a much. Nylon (either mono or thread) definitely stretches, and stretching a furled line causes it to twist. The rapid untwisting when the tippet breaks is what causes the twisties.

I fish level lines or hand tied lines and don't have to worry about twist.

[Paul Arnold]

Thanks, Chris. I was unaware that Danville Flymaster was made of nylon. That explains its elasticity and the resulting twisting of a line made with it. You sure do come in handy.

[Fly Goddess]

I make both. I use Uni and as mentioned NO STRETCH. This is very obvious making the leader as when I take the loops off the different pegs when making a furled leader, there is slack. When I make the same leader out of my mono, there is no slack, meaning the mono is stretching. The plus side to this is it acts like a bungie/snubber. I don't break off easy at all.
Should they break, the thread is less likely to boing so to speak. I also have used Kevlar for probably 10 or so years now. No give what so ever, but it also does not wind as tight and it is not as limp/supple as thread

[Paul Arnold]

Fly Goddess: When I do tenkara (or tanago) my largest tippet size is 5X, so line breakage is a pretty much a non-issue for me. And even if we were talking about a furled leader (and heavier tippets) for conventional fly fishing, the relatively modest-size fish I am apt to catch are not likely to break a furled leader; for those who stalk the wily steelhead or fish Alaska, for example, it might be a different story.

[Fly Goddess]

I understand, I have made many Tenkara leaders out of Uni and my Mono. Trees or underwater unseens break leaders too.