+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 51 to 60 of 60

Thread: Old "standard" fly patterns vs. new designs

  1. #51

    Default

    Just think, Denny, if you had been fishing some new designs with a fast action graphite rod you might have caught "over 60" plus one fishies !!

    My guess is that those guys liked those old flies you were using so well that they were getting in line for seconds and thirds. You probably really only caught between 20 and 30 different fish ??

    John
    The fish are always right.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicago, Il, USA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron haugh View Post
    Steven,
    There are MANY books written about the trout's ability to survive. This fish with a brain the size of a pea knows how to survive. He knows how and where to reproduce each year. He knows how to feed himself. He generally knows how to avoid the circling birds of prey; etc., etc.

    Evolution and nature provide wildlife with instincts and the ability survive. These inherited instincts allow the trout to adjust to conditions and to discern between likely food and not-so-likely food. This is evidenced particularly well during a heavy insect hatch. The trout key on a particular insect, and stage of that insect, and will not usually feed on any other insect which happens to float by... I know some folks throw out the very unusual situations like a trout eating a cigarette butt, etc. However these are very much the exception.

    I might suggest the book "Selective Trout" by Carl Richards and Doug Swisher.

    That "pea sized brain" doesn't do anything but keep that fish alive and reproducing. That is all it is used for.
    For the sake of civility, before going further into the discussion, let's for the sake of argument assume that we have all read the standards including books like Selective Trout or a Modern Dry Fly Code.

    Selectivity has been used as an argument for the stupidity of trout. Once keying in on one food source, the selective trout forgets about others...unlike a bass.

    Trout have inherited instincts e.g. "understanding" the need for greater caloric intake than expended to get food. But that is very different from learning, Catskills bad...Hairwing Duns good.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicago, Il, USA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    I was thinking all weekend about this thread...

    Trout on a hard fished river may become more discerning (by some definition) over time in that they will only take more realistic patterns. The question is why?

    Seems to me there are three possible answers.

    1) Trout learn. I simply don't buy this explanation.
    2) Trout grow more skittish, because there are more feet in the water messing around where they live. As such, they only feel safer taking certain food forms.
    3) As stream become more crowded (I'm thinking of that picture with 5 people right next to each other), there are less "taking" fish per angler. Back in the day, you might have been able to take them on anything, but it's always going to be easier if there are 6,000 fish in a section per angler instead of 1,250 per angler, or less (if one thinks about pollution, stream degradation, whirling disease etc., etc.) To get one, you may have to go more realistic, but that doesn't mean the fish learned.

    If Catskills still work as well as they ever did on Eastern streams, it may be argued that those streams have been hard fished for decades at least (the pools are named for heaven's sake!). Maybe more realistic ties would do better, but there's no reason to expect traditional ties to do worse as the number of taking fish per angler would not have changed (all else equal).
    Last edited by Steven; 07-02-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  4. #54

    Default

    rainbows are fools for eggs and worms, i wonder where this fits into the equation
    Please, support Project Healing Waters....Thank You

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona USA
    Posts
    446

    Default

    As a professional fly tyer and Signature Designer for Rainys and Feathercraft, I tie many different Styles of Patterns. The classics work equally as well on heavily fished streams . I tie fishable realistics as well. Each pattern has its' place on any given day, and any given water.
    Certainly I concentrate on designing go-to patterns that catch fish (not fishermen.....and women). I try to stay cutting edge in materials, and adding factors that are Stike Triggers in Fish. Rene, and Kelly have the same attitude when they design their patterns. Yes, there are places where the Trout become very educated (in example The South Platte Dream Stream and The San Juan River). While I am constantly having to come up with new patterns, I have had many times where I have seen only a size 26 Pheasant Tail work on such streams (the Classic PT). There have been times where Educated Trout in heavily fished streams and lakes refused the best and most realistic Go-To's (wow....even Czech Nymphing), and I pulled out a Classic Bergman, Jennings, or DeFeo, and nailed them (along with a few other Fly Fishermen...and Women). Go figure !!!!!!!!! That is what keeps Pro Fly Tyers like me humble. Over the many years (even since I was a little kid), I have found the greatest Fly Fishermen, Women, and Fly Tyers (those I even count as legends) very humble and certainly not on ego trips. I still even love nicely tied classic Catskills and Bergmans in an old Wheatly Box, and still catch Trout (even big ones) on heavily fished waters. I ask you, how is it that Tenkara Masters can catch fish with simple tied Flies ? It is all about presentation, and being humble enough to know that after all these years, and on every trip, there is still something that the water, and these fish can teach you (otherwise I would get bored, quit Fly Fishing and Fly Tying).
    Last edited by MR.JML; 07-02-2012 at 08:15 PM.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    bozone, mt
    Posts
    518

    Default

    You sure got some traction on this thread.

    I tie my own menagerie of complex mayfly patterns. But mostly just to keep from getting bored. I don't claim (at least not in the Mayfly realm) they entice more strikes. I just like to tie them. During the PMD hatch on a Paradise Valley Spring creek or when fishing over the half-schizophrenic caught too many times rainbows on the Henry's Fork, my experience is I can do just as well--or almost as well--with Catskill patterns as with the latest and greatest Rene Harrup patterns. Or with my own best in the universe mayflies. I prefer to fish with experimental patterns because it's more fun than deja-vuing what I did 50 years ago all over again. But any measurable difference in the daily strikes to refusals ratio is minimal. At best.

    I really do believe and stand by the above paragraph, at least in the midday mayfly/rainbow context. There are cutting edge new streamers, wigglers, leeches and nymphs that really do make a fish catching difference. But not so much (I don't think) in the dry fly mayfly context. The dryfly mayfly context only happens for a few weeks every year anyway. If you live in the rocky mountains and if you try to fish every month of the year, itty bitty mayfly dryflies become a bit like after dinner desert on Christmas or Thanksgiving...as good as it gets in some ways. And almost irrelevant in other ways. On the Paradise Valley spring creeks, if you target the mid-summer mid-day mayfly hatches, you will catch mostly rainbows. Sure. You'll get a few cutthroats and browns too. But it's mostly rainbows during hatch time. But if you come back at 7:00pm and stay 'til dark. It's mostly browns. And how you catch them gets complicated. Rainbows move around and follow the bugs. Browns hide out and lurk. And watch. And look for a fast and furious belly full. Big browns will eat a mayfly every now and then. But not all that often. The brown trout are the East LA gang bangers of the watery realm.

    =======
    Byron:
    My tapers and texturers finished on Friday. Got two coats of paint on the walls today: one coat primer and one coat color. One more color coat tomorrow. Then the hardwood floor guys come in on July 5th. All is SUPPOSED to be done July 11th. Then and only then I can unpack my office and fly tying room. And then (again) attempt to make a DVD copy of Byron Lempke. And if I'm STILL in a generous mood, send you a copy right away. Otherwise it might take a few more days than that. :=))
    Last edited by pittendrigh; 07-03-2012 at 01:20 AM.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Kapaa, hawaii
    Posts
    5,480
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Pitt:
    You're absolutely the best guy in the world of fly fishing!!!

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Woodbine, MD
    Posts
    702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnScott View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "quite a while" Byron, but I've caught a couple fish twice in not much more than half an hour, and a couple more twice in the same outing, all in the past year.
    I can go you one up on that. Earlier this, while fishing a two fly, I hooked and landed a decent brown on the top dropper. As I released him into the water, he immediately took my point fly and hooked himself again (IIRC, they were identical soft hackles).

    I'm not sure who was dumber, though, the brown or me, since I was still holding onto the top dropper, and he managed to drive it into my thumb up to the bend. I had to land and unhook the fish (for the second time) before I could unhook myself.

    A few years back, my son and I were fishing the same pool. He lost a fly to a good rainbow; it took me less than 5 minutes to catch the same fish and return him his fly. I really don't think fish learn a whole lot about hooks.
    Bob

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    bozone, mt
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron haugh View Post
    Pitt:
    You're absolutely the best guy in the world of fly fishing!!!
    ............at least until I send that DVD!

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Kapaa, hawaii
    Posts
    5,480
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    even after.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. "PETER THE GREAT" From " READER'S CAST" JULY 31ST 2000
    By Steven McGarthwaite in forum Fly Anglers Online
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-16-2022, 09:12 PM
  2. "Antron" in LaFontaine's famous Sparkle Pupa patterns
    By Byron haugh in forum Fly Tying
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 09-03-2014, 03:56 PM
  3. "Elk" Hair Caddis tied with "Deer" hair???
    By Byron haugh in forum Fly Tying
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-28-2014, 05:41 PM
  4. Tortelloni "Chicken" and Boresellini "Sausage" Ala Pana
    By spinner1 in forum A Learning Experience, Pass it On.
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-08-2011, 10:30 PM
  5. "stencils" or patterns for foam flies?
    By NTB in forum Fly Tying
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-25-2007, 02:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts