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Thread: Orvis bimini leader tippets ?? furled from the knot to the end loop

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  1. #1
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    Default Orvis bimini leader tippets ?? furled from the knot to the end loop

    I have been impressed by the Orvis bimini leader tippets which are looped onto a tapered leader that is much stronger and thicker. I am wondering if any of you know how they twisted the loop--is is furled? I would like to make up some of my own and can't figure out how they constructed them.

  2. #2

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    The twisted loop is a "bimini twist" knot, hence the name of the tippet. This is a standard knot for "big game" fishermen who are trying to catch fish on tippets with a certain class of breaking strength. The bimini twist knot is a 100% knot, so no strength is lost in the knot.

    Here is a link to how they are tied:
    http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtech...ts_Bimini.html

    Ted

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply Tedshuck. I have no problem tying the bimini knot -- however the loop in the "Orvis" leader looks as if it is furled. I can't figure out how it is done. I hope I can paste a drawing to show you what I am referring to:



  4. #4

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    I think that furled look is just due to the twist inherent in the bimini knot. The picture you show makes it look like a single loop. I have usually tied a separate surgeon's loop in the doubled line of the bimini. There is always a fair amount of twisting of the line here and I think if you made the bimini loop fairly small, the twisting in the loop would be enhanced.

    Ted

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    i have done it before by spinning one end of the mono, and holding the other end tight. then tie the mimini knot with out losing the twist. you will have to play around till ya get it but it works..
    sandfly/bob
    N.J.B.B.A. #2215
    I did not escape.....they gave me a day pass!
    from the outer edge of nowhere
    fly tying and fishing ghillie..

  6. #6
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    I tried Sandfly's technique last night--the result was far from the Orvis biminin tippet but perhaps I need more practice--a lot more practice! I really like these tippets, esp for large fish using fine tippets as they have inherent shock absorption. I do some night fishing for big 4-6 lb browns using small Elk Hair Caddis patterns and broke off lots of fish before using this type of tippet.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishmate View Post
    Thanks for the reply Tedshuck. I have no problem tying the bimini knot -- however the loop in the "Orvis" leader looks as if it is furled. I can't figure out how it is done. I hope I can paste a drawing to show you what I am referring to:



    I would say they are "twisted". Furled is both sides twisted the same direction then when put together they furl the other. A shorb loop is needed or they will unravel.
    Here is the video on how to make one:
    http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-tie...Twist-51026687

  8. #8

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    If you blow up the Orvis image a little, I think you'll come nearer understanding what I think Fishmate is asking . . . the loops in the Bimini on the Orvis tippets look as if the tippet was 'twisted' before the Bimini was tied:

    64H7C4JE_alt.jpg

    then the Bimini tied with the twisted line . . . the two loops that form the Bimini appear to be twisted together to form a single 'twisted' loop

    The only thing that immediately comes to my feeble mind is they tie the Bimini, then twist the loop up like an Offshore Swivel Knot

    SwivelKnot.jpg
    Last edited by SMClark; 05-13-2012 at 11:14 PM. Reason: ( can't spell anymore, either . . . )

  9. #9
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    I thought braided leaders were hollow,with a space to trap water in the center, & Furled leaders are solid wrapped tight.

    Neil

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    RE: "Furling is a product of twisting". Yes, and no. I follow your thinking; however, "rope laying" is the perfect example of furling, and ropes are made of from two to many strands; and their making is a 'one-step' process; not two as many leader makers employ (first "twisting", and then "furling"; both of which are simply twisting operations). The significant difference is that in rope making (laying), this is accomplished by twisting both ends simutaneouly and in the same direction. Thus, the strands are both "twisted" and "furled", in your context, at the same time, as opposed to the two-step process conventionally used when we furl our leaders. Thus, there is no difference between "twisting" and "furling" in my response as you state. Incidentally, our leaders are nothing more than a 2-strand rope, albeit they are tapered!

    The single-step process used by rope makers, which permits the release of the stored energy simultaneously with the simple twisting requires that the tippet end be twisted in the 'same' direction as the butt end, and at the same time. (Check out the numerous videos on YouTube on rope making.) We can, and some of us do, accomplish the very same thing by utilizing a ball bearing swivel to attach the thread to at the tippet end. The process also require the use of a "top" to keep the two legs separated during most of the process. Also, the butt ends of the legs are attached to the same two hooks throughout the entire process. As the legs are 'twisted, the swivel revolves in the same direction, releasing the stored energy, and resulting in simultaneous "furling", as the term is used by most. This has been thoroughly vetted on FURLEDLEADERS.CO.UK over the past couple of years.

    Those of us there who have resolved most of the problems refer to the method employed by most (two legs twisted form different hooks and then switched to a common hook and twisted in the opposite direction to "furl") as the Traditional Method (TM), and the single-step method as the Rope Laying Technique (RLT). By using the RLT, one can get, theoretically at least, a maximum of 33% reduction, instead of the 10% traditionally used. Those of us who have 'shot' for the max have gotten as much as 30% reduction. HOWEVER, said leaders are almost as stiff as the board itself! We are in general agreement that 20-25% reduction yields a much firmer, or tighter, 'furl' and still produces a supple leader.

    If you go to the literature on how the early 'furled' leaders were made using a Walton's Engine, you will find that they were made in a single step. The strands were hung from the "Engine" with a tension weight attached to the "tip" end. This weight would freely spin, releasing the 'stored energy' as the strands were being 'twisted', or 'furled' together. Hence, "twisting" and "furling", not only by definition, but also in actual practice, are synonymous.

    Because the terminology in current use does infer a distinction between the two, to prevent massive confusion among the furling ranks, it is perhaps best that we do continue to use said terminology.

    SMC, you are correct on how they are made. I cannot speak to the Offshore Swivel Knot, as this is the first time I have ever heard the term. The guys I have watched do a Bimini Twist first form a loop of mono around either their knee, or foot, and then begin to twist the two legs to form the terminal loop and create the 'twisted", or "furled" section, at issue in the original post for this particular thread. It is fascinating to watch a "Pro" do one!

    Fishn50, you are absolutely correct.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by aged_sage; 05-15-2012 at 10:46 AM.

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