Dry Supply

[teachmarkey]

Hey all,

I know the big dogs of the industry like Whiting have terrific quality necks, capes, etc., but as every tyer knows, the prices are still insane. So what would be the problem with going with imported? I have seen terrific flies on this forum, but my skills aren't museum quality. I'd like to continue to grow my tying skills, but I'm mainly tying flies for fish, not for show.

So with some companies offering imported dry fly necks for eight bucks, why not go with them instead of paying hundred? I'd like to hear from the many experts here.

Thanks!
Hugh

[MSD53X]

HI Teach;
I've never tried the imported feathers. But if I was looking for more I would contact Conranch Hackle first. Their contact info is on the sponsors page.
Good luck with whatever you decide, and please keep us posted.

[51BC]

Ther is a huge gap between an $8 neck and a $100 neck. While you and I may not need the $100 feathers, the $8 ones are usually not the bargain they seem. Better to look in the $40-$60 range. A hearty second to check Conranch.

[mickalo]

I've purchased many hackles,Saddles & Capes from Conranch, and have never been dissappointed. And Denny's prices are very affortable.

Mike

[gqualls]

I'm not an expert by no means .... two important difference between the genetic hackle and the imported hackle will be barb count on the stem and the stem thickness. The genetic hackle has high barb counts per inch and the stem is much smaller/thinner than imported hackle. The stem thickness make a lot of difference when tying off the fly and trying to get a nice, neat head on it. If you are tying smallish dry flies go with the better hackle. If you are tying woolly buggers the imported feather ought to work just fine.

[Kytroutbum]

The imported necks usually only tie larger sizes and many times you'll have to use two hackles to get the same density. A large portion of the neck will be to large for a trout fly and will go into tailing or popper, bass bug hackles. That being said, I use them for Humpies, Wulff's, Variants and my Parachutes. I am selective when I purchase an imported neck- check stiffness, and hackle sizes. I take a hackle guage into a flyshop with me! Good Imported necks offer the opportunity for a diversity of necks at a less expensive price realizing there are limitations with them. I have several good genetic necks, 100 packs, etc but use them only when I feel a lower quality neck will not suffice.

A lot of us started out tying in the 60's by buying neck loose neck hackles by the ounce from Herter's and we caught fish, even though the flies were larger.

Look into using capes, I like Keogh's, rather than saddles. I've gone into tying comparaduns also. Also, if you are tying two different hackles, ex. griz and brown on Adams, Use a high quality one and a "lower" quality to get the coloration.

Randall Sale
the Kytroutbum

[Longs for Cutts]

You get what you pay for with hackle, ALMOST now including the saddles again. They are starting to reappear in fly shops at just above their previous price. A contemporary genetic hackle, even a neck hackle, will tie at least 2 flies, and the saddles can tie close to a dozen, all with much thinner stems, heavier barb density, glossier barbs, and less web than either older genetic hackle or Indian gamecock necks, which is what the imported stuff is. There's a reason a lot of old fly patterns call for 2-4 hackles even when they were the same color, and it's because they were using non-genetic hackle and could only get 2-3 turns out of each feather.

That said, if you don't tie thousands of flies per year for retail sale like I do, there's no reason to go top of the line or even buy full skins. In fact, most commercial tyers I know don't even do that. Look at the #3/Bronze grade stuff out there, the new Whiting High & Dry series (what they used to sell to 3rd party vendors), and half-necks. Buy necks or half necks rather than saddles for a wider range of hook sizes, and if you find yourself tying a whole lot of one size of something and require more hackle in one color/size, get a few Whiting 100 packs.

[rainbowchaser]

I find the Indian necks most useful for tying larger flies like Hex's. It takes several hackles for one fly. They usually won't tie down below a 12 or 14 and there won't be many of those. The cost of hackle per fly is greater than buying genetic necks because you get a lot fewer useful feathers for each dollar. I would not mail order them at all. The quality varies too much. An alternative for a practice neck would be to find someone who breeds bantams or better yet fighting cocks (Some of the people involved with the fighting cocks may be dangerous) and buy a carefully chosen rooster. My experience is that the meat is only good for dog food but the cape is comparable to the Indian necks

[Silver Creek]

Hey all,

So with some companies offering imported dry fly necks for eight bucks, why not go with them instead of paying hundred? I'd like to hear from the many experts here.

Thanks!
Hugh

Hugh,

A lot of good points made by the previous posts. My post assumes that you you will continue to tie flies and use what hackle you purchase.

I agree that with hackle you get what you pay for. I also agree that in some special cases, imported cheaper hackle can suffice. I also agree that some good patterns do not require hackle.

But other than the first point that you get what you pay for, the other truisms are exceptions to the fact that you get what you pay for. Fishermen and fishing pressure have changed since the good old days where just about any fly could catch a fish. The requirements have changed and, as a general rule, the fish are harder to fool.

The issue is how do you get the best hackle value for what you pay for. I don't think cheap foreign hackle gets value in the majority of cases. I've found the best value are the "pro" grade necks and saddles that are used for commercial tying. That is why commercial tyers use them. If the foreign hackle was cheaper per fly and good, they would use them because they are in the business of tying good flies for the lowest cost of labor and materials. Poor hackle increases labor costs. Similarly, if the top grades saved labor and made for better flies, the commercial tiers would buy higher grades.

The folks that are in the business of tying flies have decided that the sweet spot for hackle is the pro grade. The colorations may not be perfect, the distribution of sizes on the neck or saddle may not not be up to spec for the higher grades; but for value, you can tie very good flies by examining the necks/saddles for the ones that will fill your needs.

The best part for the beginning tier is that the hackle will not hinder your tying. Poor hackle is difficult to tie with and is no bargain for the beginning tier.

The problem is that the beginner does not know how to grade hackle. So you need a buddy that has the knowledge to do this for you or a trustworthy fly shop that will hand select it for you. It is like deer hair. Good hair makes for good flies and makes tying easier. Graders are not perfect. They grade hundreds of necks a day and every once in a while they slip up and grade a neck/saddle lower than they should. I've found some wonderful saddles for $24.95. I have a coachman brown pro grade saddle and a matched grizzly pro grade saddle that will tie excellent #12 - 14 parachute adams.

[flyfisher7]

You might also consider the "100 Packs" that will tie 100 or so flies of the same size. I find use for Indian and Chinese necks, but for hackling dry flies, they are pretty much junk.