Long leaders and fine tippets ....

[JohnScott]

.... when, where, and why ??

My fly angling is almost entirely on medium to higher gradient freestone streams and rivers. That generally means lots of action and not a lot of finesse. Tippets 3-4' long fished off thread furled leaders are pretty much the norm for dry flies, which for months on end are large, as in salmonflies, golden stones, hoppers, and October caddis. Smaller dries for midges, BWO's, PMDs, drakes, March browns, smaller caddis, etc. simply call for a lighter, not longer, tippet.

Leaders / tippets for nymphing the same streams and rivers range from 3' to 8' depending on current speed and depth. Often no more than the appropriate length of 2X mono is needed. The other end of the spectrum might be 18" of 5X to trail a midge larva or pupa off a Griffith Gnat.

Recognizing that I generally fish only a small slice of the big pie that is fly angling, and that I will encounter other situations along the way, I'm curious about when long leaders and fine tippets are necessary. I have some impressions, but I prefer not to establish any particular direction for responses.

Hopefully, there will be lots of experiences and opinions offered, that will benefit not only experienced anglers who might fish particular types of creeks, streams, and rivers, but also the inexperienced anglers who visit here in their quest for information that will help them improve their fly angling experience.

John

[appalachian angler]

Wide flat water is when I tend to go long. Typically, I will fish 10-12' leaders when fishing sz 14 dries and smaller including about 3-4' of 5 or 6X tippet. This would be when I'm fishing the tailwaters of East Tennessee, which are often remarked to be like Western spring creeks. Prolific hatches of BWO's and Sulphers (eastern PMD's) in bright, clear water make for spooky and educated trout due to often heavy fly fishing pressure. When nymphing, I use only 8-9' mono leaders with a piece of flouro tippet ranging from 1-3' below a dry fly or yarn indicator which suspends the nymph;making a total length of 9 to 12'. On freestoners like you describe, I seldom feel the need to exceed a typical 9' leader (hand tied) including terminal tippet.

aa

[NJTroutbum]

I fish much the same as you, with my normal setup being a 5.5' furled leader and 3-4ft of 5x-6x flourocarbon tippet. This is my setup for both dries and nymphs and a Thing-a-ma-bobber is added for most of my nymphing. Most of my nymphs and dries range from #10 down to #18.

The situations I go lighter are midging, Trico's and some of the Mayfly hatches that wander below the #18 mark on some of the flat pools and skinny water. In those cases my only real change is to go to 7x flouro and extend my tippet to 6'.

I like to keep things simple, especially when they work.

[gqualls]

I fish a tailrace in East Tennessee, the same one as AA, and my typical set up is a 15ft 5x leader with 2 feet of 6x floro tied to a dry and then about 18 inches of 7x floro tied on a dropper. When I was taught by a coupld of savvy fisherman how to fish this particular tailrace both emphasized a need for a longer leader and the reason were the exact reasons AA has mentioned. It took a little getting used to .. fishing a leader this long .. but I really think it makes a difference. I was fishing with a buddy of mine last summerand I encouraged him 5-6 times to lengthen his leader (his was 9 foot with 1 foot of tippet material). He thanked me but said he was getting along just fine. We were fishing a stretch full of fish, same flies, same presentation and I was catching 10 fish to his one. He was very frustrated and did not believe the leaders made the difference. This particular river gets a lot of pressure, the water is clear, and the fish have seen thousands of flies. Presentation is key.
When nymph fishing is use the same set up with a 2 foot piece of 6x floro tied to the nymph, and if I'm dropping a soft hackle or midge behin the nymph I'll use 18 inches of 6x floro.
When fishing other waters a 9 foot leader with 2 feet of tippet is my standard set up.

[ScottP]

I fish mostly freestoners and 9' 5x is usually about as light and long as I have to go (even though the Madison below Quake is technically a tailwater, it fishes like a freestone for me); on tailwaters I've fished I keep on missing the hatches but have done well swinging a small softhackle on the same leader, maybe adding an extra foot of tippet.

Regards,
Scott

[Greg H]

I am in general agreement with all of the above, especially the distinction between the freestone streams (9-10ft leader including 2ft of 4-5x tippet) vs. tailwater/spring creek (12-15ft leader including 2ft of 6x tippet). For less experienced readers, her are my $.02 why I think the difference is important - particularly for dry flies.
Freestone creeks tend to be more turbulent, so you can get closer to the fish without disturbing them, and since you are closer the number of currents you have to deal with are fewer, and the drift might be both faster and shorter - thus a shorter and stouter tippet is OK. On tailwaters with a number of very smooth glides and spookier fish, you may be casting across 4 (hardly noticeable but nagging) currents of clearer water. Thus you need a longer leader and finer tippet to not only keep the line away from the fish, but this set up can also cope with the 4 currents before you start to get drag.

Two other situations could be:
Pond fishing for trout - I find I need a very long tippet (3ft) for nymphs in ponds so there is little drag on the nymph as it sinks - if I am using a bobber.
Bass fishing - 4ft of 3X is fine for a leader in this situation - river or lake.

I make my leaders from mono, with 9ft 3x being the standard. From there I can add tippet in finer and longer sections as needed.

[JohnScott]

... or close to it.

In one of the current magazines, I believe it is Fly Fisherman, there is an article on very long leader and tippet set ups.

This article dealt with some of the French trout fisheries where there are slow, shallow, flat sections where good sized trouts hold. The "standard" length of the leader / tippet combination is on the order of twenty five feet ending in several feet of tippet in 7X or 8X. The author decribes being laughed at when he started out with a 15' leader / tippet combination, and soon learned that there was merit to the advice of his French host to go longer.

The article also described not approaching closer than 60' to the target trout. Challenging conditions and requirements, for sure.

For those interested in trying such long leaders, the article includes a formula for constructing them.

On a personal note - that sounds like really boring trout fishing. That's not to say that lots of folks would undoubtedly find it satisfying and rewarding to give it a go and catch a trout in those conditions using that kind of set up. Just saying that I'm glad that I get to kick around in neat freestone mountain streams and rivers and have lots of action at close range.

John

[gqualls]

Agree wholeheartedly; like you I much prefer the action at a closer range. I have thrown to pods of fish at long distance and caught them but it's just a lot of work to me. Also, I prefer to fish moving water, fast enough where there's a little ripple. Seems to me I can get away with a little stronger tippet and shorter leader in moving water.

[DaleW]

Gee ... with all those LONG, LONG leaders I might just as well go to a spinning rod! I guess we all sort of lean to our original teachings. My basic fly fishing training was to think in terms of a leader, for openers, to be the length of the fly rod - shorter for real close in situations, windy days or heavier lures. Longer for calm days, more open spaces and dry flies. It's sort of a judgement call for where your at, what your doing and what's going on. I will change leader (and tippet) length just like changing what I'm tying onto the end of it.

[NJTroutbum]

While I never go over 11' 6" in total (5 1/2' leader with 6ft of flouro tippet), I also seldom ever drop below an 8 1/2' leader with a 3ft of flouro tippet. While I've never really noticed a need for longer leaders overall for spooky trout, I do find that a 6ft tippet does in deed make a difference.