I Don't Feel Crazy.........

[Byron haugh]

I had a post about how long a dry fly needs to float. I am thinking of aquatic insect imitations on a flowing stream. DG thinks anyone who would ask such a question should be in a straight jacket.

Nonetheless, I am asking because I am intrigued by Gary LaFontaine's Halo Emerger patterns. So, I was wondering if his "Halo" could be incorporated into a dun pattern to form a "trigger point" and assist in longer dry floats.

Here are a couple of early attempts:
Please let me know your thoughts (except for those of DG who has already provided his thoughtful and insightful comments)

Thanks,
Byron

[John Rhoades]

Byrun -

I sometimes fish very killing nymph patterns (that are similar to a flashback pheasant tail, or GRHE) that use narrow slips of black closed cell foam tied in along each side to simulate wing cases - much better than having a single wing case tied on top of the fly, IMO.

So, I'm thinking that foam along the sides of your fly (similar to LaFontaine's Halo Emerger) would also represent wing cases, in addition to helpng the fly float. I think I'd prefer to have the foam in dark gray or black though for that purpose. You could easily use a magic marker to simply color the foam on your fly, or tie it with black or gray foam.

I'm sure I have some Halo Emerger's tucked away someplace, tied as the the original pattern suggested - with that orange deer hair wing slanting forward over the eye - but I'll be darned if I ever caught anything on one of them.

Personally, I think you might just be onto something that could be an improvment over the originals...

John

[AlanB]

In his book, In the Rings of the Rise, Vince Mariano describes a trout hanging in the water under a dry fly as it drifts. I have only ever known this happen in very smooth glides. In fast broken water the trout will slash at the fly, grabbing it before it gets away, in fast water what we call the chocolate biscuit (cookie) approach is most successful. (Take a child to McDonald's and feed him burgers and chips (fries) until they will not eat any more. Then wave a chocolate biscuit in front of them and see what happens!) For this we use flies like the Klinkhammer or Humpy.

In flat glides these flies give way to ones with a more accurate profile, such as Compara / Sparkle Duns, thorax duns, Petitjean Duns etc. As these flies only have to float on the glassy surface of a glide they do not need the kind of "floatability" (I use this term because it is imprecise) as the flies for broken water. They do however, need their profile. This is especially true if the trout hang under the fly inspecting it (if that is what they are doing) before deciding if they should take it or not.

When trout hang under a fly in this way the biggest problem facing the angler is how to maintain a drag free drift. Any well dressed fly, given an appropriate anointing of floatant, will float for long enough.

This leads me to ask, what is your fly (above) for? Is it for broken water? In which case there is little need for the delicate dressing. (Comparatively) big rough and ready flies work perfectly. Is it for the slow glides? In which case the extra foam on either side really isn't needed to float the fly, and only serves to ruin the outline of the fly.

Several years ago I experimented with using foam in dry flies. Here is one that incorporates closed cell foam but maintains a more lifelike silhouet.

There are still some of these flies in my box. I don't tie them anymore, because I don't fish them. I found that there was no gain in angling performance from using them. There was no return for the extra time and effort spent in tying them.

In just the same way, as I found with my foam flies, I don't think you will get any significant return on your investment in this fly. Of course all this depends on whether you view fly dressing as a part of angling, or as something completely separate. If you look in my fly boxes you will see that my fishing flies are different to the flies I tie commercially, generally they are simpler. The flies I tie for sale have to catch anglers, (fish don't pay for flies). The flies in my box are for catching fish.

Cheers,
A.

[rainbowchaser]

I read the original post an hour ago and was letting my ideas simmer a bit before responding only to find that AlanB has pretty much summed up my opinion. I would only add that I think you should tie up several of these flies and test them on fish this year. Pictures of trout taken on these flies, especially if fished in tandem with and outperforming standard patterns, would change my opinion rapidly.

[Byron haugh]

Thanks Rainbow. That is the only test that counts. Certainly plan on doing just that this Spring/Summer. Will let you folks know how it goes.

[pittendrigh]

Marinaro was (and still is) my favorite author. But you do have to take what he says with a grain of salt.
After all it was he who--in The Ring of the Rise--suggested crossing two front-facing hackle fibers on a house fly pattern, so its legs would be crossed, like the real thing. And then he claimed (with a straight face) it made a real-world difference somehow.

The Compara Dun and Sparkle Dun variant are two of the most productive spring creek and tailwater dun patterns. They have a good profile and the fish take them well. But they don't float well enough to "float long" and especially to float in a faster-water freestone context.

Your foam blobules on either side of a compara dun thorax would indeed create longer floating pattern. But perhaps not so anatomically realistic. Maybe a more realistic way to add flotation to a compara dun would be to (somehow) add legs, rather than foam blobs.

An under-mounted parachute would be great. But not so easy to tie (there are ways).
Perhaps easier than a parachute would be the world famous under-the-thorax Zelon crossbar tuft.

RE> undermounted parachutes. This takes technology. You can lash a bit of Teflon tubing under the thorax, at right angles to the shank. Then you can wind the parachute around that. Then put a drop of CA glue on the fulcrum of the winding point. Then--once the glue is hard--pull out the tubing. Then snip off the thread loop left by the now missing tubing. This is a lot of trouble and I don't really recommend it. But it does work. It is a way to put a parachute on the underisde of any thorax. And that parachute does increase floatation...dramatically. The Zelon crossbar is easier, and it does (I think) have a more realistic appearance than foam blobs. :=))

[Byron haugh]

Thanks Pitt
Again, I am intrigued by LaFontaine's Halo Emerger patterns which he swore by. Have you read his book on "Proven Patterns"? This was basically it with a few trailing fibers.

[Buddy Sanders]

Byron,

after looking at the flies themselves for a while, I really think you may be on to something with the side mounted foam. The moving water I fish tends to be faster and more broken. I use a lot of foam bodies to ensure floatation without having to use or depend on wound hackle. Adding your side mounted foam would solve a couple of issues for me when the water gets low. A more realistic float lower in the surface film and side to side stability during the drift. Both things I've had issues with with fuller
high floating ties under low water condtitions.

I think I would color the foam so it appears as a case or maybe try to blend it with the body color just because I'd like how it looks better. Doubt it would matter to the fish.

This will give me another thing to play this summer.

Thanks,

Buddy