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Thread: Up Eye Dry Fly Hooks

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Liberty Lake, Washington
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    Default Up Eye Dry Fly Hooks

    I have a container of each, size 12 & 14, Mustad up eye dry fly hooks. I bought them accidentally and have never tied on them until today. They are probably 5 years old. I'm wondering what difference the up eye configuration would make on the way the fly floats. Basically, they are identical to the standard down eye design with the exception of the eye. Other than being slightly different to tie on, they are the same. Just wondering if they float differently than the standards.
    Where you go is less important than how you take the steps.
    Fish with a Friend,
    Lotech Joe


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sheffield Lake, Ohio
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    320

    Default

    Not much difference but you will have a better gape, they just look cool.

  3. #3

    Default

    Pete Hidy tied a lot of his flymphs on up eyed hooks. They are suppose to give a better hook up due the angle of set.

  4. #4
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    Rothschild (Wausau), Wisconsin
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    Default

    These are a couple of "old wive's tales". They have been repeated so much that we believe them without thinking about them. Modern fly fishing books have corrected the error, although the Mustad site continues to say that the hook eye position matters on angle of set. It does not.

    The position of the hook eye has no relationship to the angle of the hook set. The hook set is performed with the fish's mouth closed on the hook and the angle of the set is the angle of pull between the rod tip and the hook eye. So it is the rod position that determines the angle of the hook set.

    For example, one would think that a down eye hook would cause the angle of pull to be "down" on the hook, but the angle of pull is actually up if the rod tip is above the level of the hook when the hook set occurs. Once the hook point penetrates flesh, the hook pulls on the flesh deforming it and simultaneously the hook rotates in line with the angle of pull of the line.

    The hook gape is the distance between the hook point and the hook shank. It is unaffected by the hook eye angle. What narrows the hook gape is the material that is tied on the fly opposite the hook point. The distance between the hook eye and hook point can vary with the eye position BUT is unimportant unless the hook is very short.

    I think hook eye postion is more about the aesthetics of the fly and the ease of tying the fly than any effectiveness in hooking.
    Regards,

    Silver

    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    South Louisiana
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    Aaaahhh... we found that in small sizes, my fishing buddy and I missed a lot more trout with turned up eyes...
    and we threw/gave away all our turned up Mustad hooks in anything smaller than #14's, and I'm so cheap I still have unused tying stuff from the 70's that I "may need someday"...

    just my 2 cents,

    Bowfin47

  6. #6
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    My question was; "How do they float?"
    Where you go is less important than how you take the steps.
    Fish with a Friend,
    Lotech Joe


  7. #7
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    Nov 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bowfin47 View Post
    Aaaahhh... we found that in small sizes, my fishing buddy and I missed a lot more trout with turned up eyes...
    and we threw/gave away all our turned up Mustad hooks in anything smaller than #14's, and I'm so cheap I still have unused tying stuff from the 70's that I "may need someday"...


    just my 2 cents,


    Bowfin47


    You can modify those small gape hooks by offsetting the point. This exposes the point when the fishes mouth flattens the fly.


    When you try this on a fly that is already tied, you risk breaking off the barb, but I think it is worth the risk to improve the hooking percentage. Of course, when you tie on these hooks, you offset the eye before tying the fly.


    Better yet, buy a 2X short hook to get a larger gap to shank length ratio, and add the offset. A Daiichi J220 is an example of such a hook. It is made in sizes 20, 22, and 24.
    Regards,

    Silver

    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boise, Idaho, USA
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    Default

    Hi Lotech Joe,

    You've received several well-thought posts about the hooking ability of the up-eye hooks so I won't add to that discussion. Getting to your original question: Joe, I only have a number of years of anicdotal evidence to offer but in those years I have seen no difference in the floatation of a fly tied with an up-eye hook over one tied with a down-eye. I often use the up-eye hooks to tie Up Side Down dry flies. Why? The only reason I can offer is I like the way they look while resting on my tying table waiting to go to a customer or in my fly box. I don't think the fish have noticed one way or the other but again I state I only have anicdotal evidence to offer in support of my belief. Take care & ...

    Tight Lines (Gretchen &) Al Beatty
    www.btsflyfishing.com

  9. #9

    Default

    I remembered readin something somewhere about up-eyed as opposed to down-eyed hooks.
    It was in Halford's first book on Dry Flies. You will note he was indifferent to either,
    it's not often I agree with his opinions
    . The ease in tying on the fly was more important.
    http://donaldnicolson.webplus.net/page510.html
    Last edited by Donald Nicolson; 12-28-2011 at 02:39 PM.
    Donald Nicolson (Scotland)

    http://donaldnicolson.webplus.net/

  10. #10
    AlanB Guest

    Default

    Given that everything else is the same the turned up eye will make no difference to how the fly floats. What no one seams to have mentioned is that the turned up eye was to accommodate a turle knot, where the cast is tied around the hook shank.
    Cheers,
    A.

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