On the other hand that stash of Mustad hooks I have may turn into an early retirement investment. My old Hardy reels I bought 20 years ago are now worth a small fortune if I ever decide to sell them. Some have increased in value from 500 to 1000% from my original purchase price. If this happens for my Mustad collection I could make 20 to 40 bucks profit.Originally Posted by jszymczyk
great, if Mustad turns into a Hardy or Abel, I won't be able to afford ANY hooks any more...
"The reason you have a good vision is you're standing on the shoulders of giants." ~ Andy Batcho
I have spent over 40 years looking at various companies for insurance purposes. I have seen and be relocated by buy outs and have seen companies go out of business. First, there are no guarantees that a company will remain the same and continue to manufacture the same high quality, or low cost products they have historically produced. I think the odds are against it. Technology changes, financial markets, etc., all conspire against remaining the same. You can only hope when ownership changes the products improves or at least does decline. I have seen one company buy another and immediately start making changes. This has never made sense to me, if it was a lousy company, why did they buy it? If it is a good company why make wholesale changes? It will always be better to see one company buy another than to see a company go under or for the next generation of owners come in run the company in the ground and let the product decline in value. I hope Mustad continues to manufacture a great product at a fair price and the workers will be able to retain their jobs and the benefits of those jobs. Time will tell.
Want to hear God laugh? Tell him Your plans!!!
Don't know if this is gonna be good or bad, but we're gonna find out!!!
There ya' go - that's looking at the bright side of things....
Mustad = Mu$ta$h !
.
Last edited by Dave E; 11-30-2011 at 05:23 PM.
Ummmm...Hardy just laid off nearly 30% of their workers. So I'd hardly point to them as a shining example of how well they're doing. And we're talking about the Abel that was owned by Bernie Madoff's sons and had to be dumped in a hurry to save it from the Attorney General of NY seizing it and selling off the assets as ill-gotten gains. Right? Yeah, investment firms buying out quality, family-owned fishing industry companies is "good news."
The answer is just because they CAN. That always goes badly. Egotistical arrogance.
On the other hand, I have seen leadership changes where the "new guy" takes time to get a good understanding of how things are working, how they are supposed to work, and then after some time goes by starts to make little tweaks here and there. Operations get refined and improved. People are happier and more satisfied. I hope Mustad does well.
Dear Ummmm,I'll take a wait and see about this one. Sometimes acquisitions can assure a future for a company top loaded with retirement age patricarchs ( http://joshuagreencorp.com/ ). Look how well Hardy rods are doing now, positive product changes at Abel, etc.
I'll stand by that statement.
My reference to Sage, Redington & Rio as a model of what can come from a friendly acquisition holds. None of those companies were being publicly traded and no one was twisting anyone's arm or forcing them to sell.
My comment about Hardy rods & Abel was in reference to their recent developments in product line. But somehow I think you already knew that.
Both Hardy's and Abel are product driven companies. Their recent introductions to their product lines have been very successful and I wouldn't bet against either of them over the long haul. It's pretty hard to argue the success of the Hardy Sintrix Zenith line of rods.
As far as layoffs of redundant positions and their losses over the last two years, give them credit for disclosing their position. Who among us has seen the ledgers of the companies who manufacture or supply our gear? Are you privy to the current financial status of a large group of tackle purveyors, for instance Simms, Orvis, Waterworks, Cortland, Scadden, Scott, Bauer, Tibor ? If not, then for all you know, Hardy's could actually be doing well by comparison to a group of fly tackle manufacturers during this world wide economic downturn.
Could you tell us all how many employees have been laid off at Abel?
Layoff's aren't the soul dominium of acquisitions. They can come when least expected, to fiscally sound companies amidst times of strong earnings and can be triggered for any number of reasons.
But then again, I'm one of those hard hearted capitalist who wouldn't be at all surprised to see someone whose worried about the future of Mustad or Hardy's to come " Occupy " the front lawn of my palatial palace.
Best Regards, Dave
Last edited by Dave E; 12-02-2011 at 04:56 PM.
Hi All,
I am going to hope for the best for Mustad and Dr. Fish. Over the last 2 or 3 years I have been stocking up on the old Mustad fly tying hooks to get, for my standards, a very long lasting stock of the old hooks.
From what Dr. Fish has told us, the new Mustad patterns may be better than the old ones I have been buying, but the flies I tie are all situated for the old pattern hook lengths, so I wanted a good supply of them. I do like the smaller barb on the newer hooks, and think such is an obvious improvement. Also, improvements in steel and other types of production have happened over the years, and if everything else stays the same, the new should be more consistent than the old.
None the less, I will probably run out, at some time, of my old pattern hooks, because I have kids and grandkids that I am going to eventually start tying for, and you never know what type of hook will get used up before I anticipate such. I also give flies away to a small group of friends, and use up hooks that way. I do like Mustads and have used them for years, so have no plans to change. Unless something awful happens to Mustad's quality I will buy the new Mustad patterns when the old ones are gone. Still it was quite painful for me when Mustad dropped the old line and went to the new, even if the new are better. Guess I am too much of a traditionalist.
Again I am hoping things go well for Mustad and Dr. Fish. Mustad hooks are a part of fly fishing history and tradtion, and I would hate to see anything happen to them.
Regards,
Gandolf
Dave E,
I merely said I wouldn't point to Hardy as an example of how great a company is doing after being bought by an investment firm when they just laid off 27% of their work force. I do know that most of the mfg's in the industry with a similar size workforce to Hardy have not laid off a quarter of their employees this year. I know that some of the rod makers are actually growing. I know that some of the lifestyle sporting goods retail-mfgs like Orvis, LL Bean, et al. are actually doing quite well in this down economy. So the answer to some of those questions you asked is "Yeah, I pretty much do." Hardy said in the news article I linked to that their sales are way down. Go figure! That happens when you don't have a recession-proof business model.
You see, I'm all for free enterprise, entrepreneurship, private enterprise, and all that good stuff. But capitalism has an unseemly and inefficient "dark side" that comes along with its ability to energize private enterprise. It can be extremely predatory and is often very parasitic. That's why I was also surprised you chose the Madoff boys' old company as another example to try and reinforce your point. But the bottom line is that only time will tell if Mustad gets better, worse, or stays the same. People can hang all the labels the want to, but the truth is that nothing is all good or all bad, and each of us has to stand on the merits and faults of our own character and results.
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