Need help choosing waders

[starfish]

Hey folks,

I need new waders, and I've narrowed it to two: the Simms Freestone Zip and the Simms Headwaters (non zip).

I am replacing a cheaper pair of Dan Bailey waders, so either one is a step up, however, I'm trying to decide if the lesser material and addition of a zipper is better than traditional waders in true Gore-tex.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Spyderman]

Jeff,

I have a pair of Simms Headwaters and also a pair of Dan Bailey Lightweights. I switch back and forth to spread the wear. I've had both for about a year, which is about 40 trips each for me. I prefer the Baileys, mainly because I find the lower legs, from the knee down, to be more flexible, and a little roomier than the Simms. I find the stiff, multi layer lower legs of the Simms to be a little hard to remove when doffing the waders. I suppose the flip side of that is that they should resist a lot of kneeling on rocks. Also, I like the interior chest pocket on the Baileys better than the exterior mesh pocket on the Simms. Keeps my camera dry. So far, both waders are holding up fine. I suppose you've been through this, but try on both waders if you can, and do plenty of squatting and kneeling to check freedom of movement. Also try them on with your own boots as you may find the fit is different due to the sock feet materials and designs. Good luck.

Spyderman

[farleycat]

i think it was Betty that suggested once that you put your foot into a plastic bag before donning your waders and it will make them very easy to remove.
I have to tell ya I tried it and your feet slip out like butter ....pure joy !!!

Bernie

[starfish]

Thanks Spyderman for your opinion. I'm definitely not getting another pair of baileys though. Mine have leaked for 5 of the 7 years I've owned them - Now days I'm an occasional fisherman, so I haven't really cared. I wouldn't be looking now, but a local shop is going out of business, so I can get the simms at a nice discount. I liked the comfort of the baileys, but I really hated the gravel guards. The would never stay down on my boots. Also, the pocket makes no difference to me as I never used the pocket on my baileys.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if the tradeoff of Gore-tex is worth it for a zippered front.

Jeff

[ScottP]

I had a pair of Freestone (non-zip) for 3 years which I really liked; thought they were pretty durable and comfortable although I admit I didn't put a whole lot of miles on them. When they developed a minor leak in one of the feet, I shipped them back to Simms, hoping they'd fix them. Instead I get the word from the service dept. that they're not repairable (really?) but that they'd replace them at no cost (except for $20 shipping) with a new pair of Freestones; thought that was a pretty good deal until I got the new waders, which started to leak in the feet within a few months. Got on the horn to Simms customer service and they told me that they'd had some problems with the low-end products in their line since they outsourced production to China and I could either get another pair of the Freestones (again at no cost except for shipping) or upgrade to a pair of their gortex waders for only $200; the rep told me that since the gore-tex were "Made in the USA" they could guarantee I'd have no problems but if I went with the Freestones, I'd be calling him back within 6 months complaining about the same problems about leaks (no kidding, that's what he said). I got into a discussion with him about what quality control should mean and if Simms is going to put their name on a product it should probably invest a little time in said quality control, but got nothing but the standard company run-around about outsourcing, increasing costs, etc, etc. I replaced the Freestones with another pair of same (didn't have an extra $200 floating around, but just happened to be around Bozeman so I dropped them off in person and saved the shipping cost) in April and yes, they have developed a pinhole leak in the left boot. I'm debating sending them back, since I know where that will lead, or just breaking out the Aquaseal and going after the leak myself, which will probably void the warranty.
Bottom line - I'd be extremely leery about buying any of the low end of their waders since quality control seems to be problematic, at best, and more likely non-existent; if you're going to buy Simms, consider the gore-tex. Sorry for the rant, but just trying to pass on my experience.

Regards,
Scott

[John Rhoades]

Scott -

I find your story truly amazing, and wonder why Simms would continue to sell these waders knowing the problems that they have. I think that I would be inclined to demand that they refund my purchase price.

John

I had a pair of Freestone (non-zip) for 3 years which I really liked; thought they were pretty durable and comfortable although I admit I didn't put a whole lot of miles on them. When they developed a minor leak in one of the feet, I shipped them back to Simms, hoping they'd fix them. Instead I get the word from the service dept. that they're not repairable (really?) but that they'd replace them at no cost (except for $20 shipping) with a new pair of Freestones; thought that was a pretty good deal until I got the new waders, which started to leak in the feet within a few months. Got on the horn to Simms customer service and they told me that they'd had some problems with the low-end products in their line since they outsourced production to China and I could either get another pair of the Freestones (again at no cost except for shipping) or upgrade to a pair of their gortex waders for only $200; the rep told me that since the gore-tex were "Made in the USA" they could guarantee I'd have no problems but if I went with the Freestones, I'd be calling him back within 6 months complaining about the same problems about leaks (no kidding, that's what he said). I got into a discussion with him about what quality control should mean and if Simms is going to put their name on a product it should probably invest a little time in said quality control, but got nothing but the standard company run-around about outsourcing, increasing costs, etc, etc. I replaced the Freestones with another pair of same (didn't have an extra $200 floating around, but just happened to be around Bozeman so I dropped them off in person and saved the shipping cost) in April and yes, they have developed a pinhole leak in the left boot. I'm debating sending them back, since I know where that will lead, or just breaking out the Aquaseal and going after the leak myself, which will probably void the warranty.
Bottom line - I'd be extremely leery about buying any of the low end of their waders since quality control seems to be problematic, at best, and more likely non-existent; if you're going to buy Simms, consider the gore-tex. Sorry for the rant, but just trying to pass on my experience.

Regards,
Scott

[ScottP]

John,

Considered that but for what I paid for the 2007 Freestones (which is what I'd be re-funded), I could could only buy half a pair of today's model and I'd still probably be looking at a $200 outlay to get waders that were crafted with some pride in workmanship or at least some true quality control. The old Simms "Made in Montana" pitch needs to be revised. I apologize for the sidebar session here, just want to share my Simms experience with the OP since Jeff is considering wading into the low end of the Simms lineup.

Regards,
Scott