Practical difference between machined reels and cast reels

[FlyFlinger]

In a separate thread, it was stated that "be sure that whatever you buy is machined and not cast or injected." I can't help but wonder what the practical difference is in the manufacturing processes. It has been my impression that machined reels will react better to impact (i.e., dropping or banging around), but I don't know any other differences. Could someone please enlighten me?

Thanks.

[FlyFlinger]

I talked to someone via "chat" on the Orvis site with this same question, using their Battenkill Barstock reel and their Clearwater reel as examples between the machined reel and the cast reel. The only pertinent issue he raised was the difference in weight; the BBS is about 16% lighter than its Clearwater counterpart. But if you look at the photos of the two reels on their site, you will see that the BBS is heavily ported on both sides, while the Clearwater is ported on one side only (and, it appears, not as heavily as the BBS). Therefore, I tend not to put too much "weight" (pun intended) on the difference in avoirdupois.

He didn't mention any difference in resistance to impact.

Any other input? Anyone?

[92Esquire]

OK, so I'm a materials engineer by degree, but that was a very, very, very long time ago. However, what I'd suggest is that a cast reel is likely made of a more brittle material, and may have more voids in the material than one that's cut from a billet. A machined reel will likely survive impact (like dropping on a rock) better than a cast reel (I said likely, not for certain. I'm sure someone has a pile of cast reels that they've dropped from 10K feet that are still scratch-free).

One thing to be concerned with however, is some companies are probably casting reels in near-net shape, then machining the surface to be able to sell them as "machined". These would likely have the same properties as cast reels, not machined ones.

If anyone wants to call me out on this, go ahead. It's been a long time since I did any true metallurgy, and casting/forging/machining was not my specialty.

[FlyFlinger]

Thanks, 92Esquire, that's precisely the kind of information I'm looking for. My inquiry is not purely academic; it seems to me that some very reputable manufacturers are beginning to bring out cast reels that, otherwise, have quite desirable characteristics. Two that come to mind are the Ross Flyrise and the Lamson Konic. Nowadays, in my time of retirement, I'm looking for ways to save bucks without significantly giving up quality, and these reels are becoming more attractive.

[tailingloop]

92Esquire summed up my understanding. Cast reels can be very durable. Look at the Scientific Anglers System 2 reels for an example with a long history, or the Loomis Venture/Shimano Ultegra for a more recent design. There are many others.

[Scruffy Fly]

You will find that the cast reals are generally painted. The machine bodies can be painted or anodized. If they are hard anodized they will be more resistant to corrosion especially on the sharp corners. Hard anodize can eat the corners so that they are rounded but that these days is probably limited very well.

Cast parts are not generally anodized because the acid etching process will tend to expose and grow small pits and voids making smooth surfaces appear rough.

I have read that salt water can cause spotting and fading on painted surfaces.

My opinion is that any reel I use is going to be banged up soon anyways so prettyness is going to be substantially reduced no matter what.

[FlyFlinger]

Both of the reels mentioned above feature a polyurethane coating, which seems to me (a non-engineer) to be one step down from anodizing, but a big step up from painting. I have some good experience with the polyurethane coating. A few years ago, a saltwater guide friend of mine recommended a Shimano Stradic spinning reel made from magnesium; I was hesitant to buy a magnesium reel for saltwater, but Butch assured me that the polyurethane coating on the Stradic would hold up. It certainly has, over several years now; the reel has given me excellent service. Therefore, I would not be hesitant to buy one of the mentioned reels, given that the manufacturers are so highly reputed (as is Shimano).

[jszymczyk]

many other industries use injection casting of aluminum alloys to make parts which must withstand MUCH greater stresses than a fly reel ever will. Firearms and aircraft are two which come instantly to mind. USUALLY but not always, these parts are cast somewhat larger than the finished part and then machined to the final dimensions.

I wouldn't think any company is going to take the time and effort to produce a fully machined reel which is a piece of junk.

A reel made with cast parts can be every bit as "well made", "strong", "good" or whatever adjective one chooses, as a fully machined reel.

Conversely, low-quality, low-tolerance castings can be made and sold by the boatload for cheap.

We're talking about fly reels-- you're not going to drive nails with it or use it as a car jack, or a lawnmower. I've never had trouble with cast aluminum reels, in salt or fresh water.

[WarrenP]

As an example here is a fly reel that I do not believe is machined and I own 3 of them with spare spools. I really like the reels and the price and I feel they look good plus the drag is great. As far as I am concerned, I must purchase what I can afford that does the job I require and these reels fit my requirements and price range plus they have a lifetime warranty.

http://www.sageflyfish.com/dyn_prodlist.php?k=144881

[flyguy66]

The key elements of machined vs. cast reels have been handled here pretty well by people with more technical expertise than I have. I would just like to add that there are plenty of "catch phrases" that get used in the marketing end of the fishing industry like soundbites and talking points in Washington DC. Machined vs. cast sort of fits in that same category nowadays. Not too many years ago, it was a general guideline that cast reels were usually of inferior overall quality. That was reflected in radically lower price points, too. But the manufacturing technology has changed in the past decade or so, and several reel mfgs have taken advantage of these improvements to bring some very good cast reels to the marketplace at a price point that is more-or-less half way between the old "cheap" cast reels and the quality machined reels. Today, whether a reel is machined or cast really is no more indicative of the overall quality of the reel than the phrase "high modulus" means that a fly rod is made of superior materials. There are cast reels that are being deep anodized with great success. The new polyurethane coatings are proving very effective. Heck, even some of the high-impact carbon polymer reels are pretty darned good if "pretty" isn't important to you.

I own a couple of cast big game reels that I use in both salt and fresh water. They're great. The mfg said, "Now, be sure to rinse these off right away if you use them in salt water. They're not fully machined from bar stock, you know. They're fine for salt water use, but they probably won't take much abuse. If you leave them sitting around with salt water on them they will probably rust." Well - I don't actually expect my gear to take abuse. I take good care of my property. Everything is always supposed to get a good rinse after exposure to salt water. I have owned 2 pure 6061 aircraft aluminum bar stock machined fly reels that rusted after being fished in saltwater even though they were rinsed promptly. They didn't have good stainless steel screws in them! The Devil is in the details. I have used these cast reels for a couple of years now (including spare spools) with no signs of wear and tear. The machined reel in the large size comparable to one of these cast reels bears an MSRP of about $400. The cast reel has an MSRP of about $130. And it has a better drag in it too.

The longer you do this stuff...if you're paying attention and eavesdropping frequently...the more you come to realize just how much of the "conventional wisdom" is actually just marketing buzz or commercially driven. It is about catching fishermen more than it is about catching fish. That's what pays the bills. There are some fantastic machined reels out there. I am in no way saying that a great machined reel isn't worth the extra money! SOME of them may be. I have a mix of both machined and cast reels, and will probably acquire more of each. I also have some polymer reels. (talk about a reel that is salt water friendly!) But there are some very high quality products out there nowadays for the budget-minded fly angler. You can have high quality gear that won't fail you without breaking the bank or getting served with divorce papers.