What distance defines "space invasion" on a small stream?

[HCR]

I'd set up at the head of a 75 ft.run on a steam about 30 feet wide. Along comes a "guide" w/two clients. He puts them in the water 40 ft. downsteam from me. I'm standing on the bank so as not to spook fish in this shallow run, but he has the man and woman wade into the water and start casting upstream toward me.

I recognized the guide, but had not met him, and knew that he was working out of a shop I have patronized for years. I like the owner of the shop and he has given me great service so I did not tell the guide off when on the water. I also refused to move on. Two hours later I left and encountered the guide as he was going back to his vehicle, having left the clients on the stream to continue fishing while he went to retrieve more flies.

I told him that I did not appreciate being crowded. He gave no apology, but merely asserted "I didn't crowd you." He turned around and walked off.

He was fishing the stream, which is in National Forest, on a "Commerical User" permit.

My question is this: Would you have felt that he was crowding you and lacked stream etiquette? What would you have done?

[sagefisher]

If they were drifting by in a boat, starting to fish at 40 feet from you would be almost ok, almost. I usually give the person standing on the shore or in the water at least 100 feet, figuring they will not cast that far anyway.

However, since they were also walking, 40 feet is way too close to fish to another person, heck you can cast farther than that without any effort at all. If that was the only run that was decent to fish on the whole stream, then maybe, but I doubt that was the case. He should have taken them to a different drift and waited for you to leave before he brought them to your run.

On the other hand, you don't own that drift and we do have to share, so if you were at the head of the drift then they could have been placed down by the end, say 60 feet from you and told they could fish straight out from themselves and down.

I tend to let people know when I am unhappy, but that is my nature. You do have to be careful when doing that, some people really blow up and become complete Adam Henrys.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[WarrenP]

HCR,

I feel your pain and have had it happen to me quite often. Yes, I do get upset about it, but, I think I must have mellowed out over the years and just mumble to myself and if they become too much of a discomfort, I just move on to another spot on the river. I guess I figure the guide is thinking of his fee and of customer satisfaction with his service. Fly fishing to him is just a job and fly fishing to me is the relaxation, peace, solitude and surroundings which I can find elsewhere on the river if need be. We both have different goals and they do not mix well. I have just reached a point in my life that fighting and exchanging words with others is no longer important. When both are done, the original problem still exists and all that was accomplished is a "winner" in the fight or exchange of words. Let's face it, there are more and more people trying to share the same water and some have absolutely no respect for others on the water and never will. It all boils down to most people do not appreciate what the river and the surroundings are offering them. All they are thinking about is their egos or the money that they are making. All we can do is hope as they become older, that they realize that their egos and money erned does not come close to the peace, solitude and the beautiful surroundings offered them by the river and the fly fishing experience. Until then, this problem will continue and will, sadly, become worst. It is a crowded world out there....

Just my thoughts on the experience you encountered........

[montana mike]

Warren P. That's really heavy duty and well said. Was boiling over until I read your SAGE wise words. Thanks kindly and you made my day. Now, I am getting rigged up to go fishing with a great calmness and peace of heart. Have a smooth day and tight lines!!!!

[Dave E]

Given the parameters of your scenario, wade in guiding, 30 foot wide stream, etc. I having been a guide would not have started my clients within your field of view. Not just for your sake, but to enhance the clients experience as well. Of course that may be a luxury of location.
Heavily used waters tend to bring the best out in some people and the worst out in others.

Nowadays I'm more likely to yield a beat to another angler simply because I prefer solitude, don't need the constant reminder / distraction of another angler and I have a great deal of time to spend on the water.
I realize that others simply don't have that kind of time and are often trying to get their licks in between tweets, texts and the other self inflicted tethers of their modern day lives.


Anyway, simple answer. Had I noted another angler that close, I would've yielded.

Dave

[fishbum]

Must be a trout fishing thing.

fishbum

[Dave E]

Must be a trout fishing thing.

fishbum

Ya' cause there are no instances of glitter boat captains blowing mom and pop off of a bank in warm water fishing and no keys guides have ever infringed on unguided recreational anglers.

[Lotech]

Being a basically non confrontational type, I would have left the conversation where you indicated and made a bee-line to the fly shop where that guide works. I would explained the infringement episode to the shop owner and would have let him know that as long as guides like that work for his shop, I would patronize other shops. It only takes one bad employee to ruin a businesses reputation. There is a shop in my area that I no longer patronize due to one bad employee, and the shop owner knows it. It also happens to be the shop owner.