Approaches to casting

[Utah David]

It's been awhile since I've posted here, but recently, I had the opportunity to watch two gentlemen taking turns with a couple of new model five weight rods, and hear what they had to say about the other?s casting (and the rods). Which in turn got me thinking of my own casting.

Mind you, both of these men were using the same rods and the same lines. One would cast a few times to targets placed at varying distances, then hand the rod to the other, who would do the same. I was amazed at how such different approaches could be so effective with the same rod. They would then offer their opinion of the other's casting (and the rod) and try to defend their own. The rods were all nine feet in length, and the line had a nine foot leader/tippet added to it. The distances were measured from where the caster was standing.

The first caster was usually making some point about how you need to be able to "punch" the line out there, even with a head wind. He argued that higher line speed and aerodynamic loops are the only way to do that, and as long as you aren't "drilling holes" in the water, a line quickly rolled out in the air will "fall" just as softly as one that rolled out slowly. So a gentle presentation (if required) isn't compromised either way. He could carry most of the line in the air and shoot well into the backing if he wanted to. His stroke was pretty quick and short (by comparison), and he looked very "engaged" while casting. When he wasn't casting, it was almost comical to watch his body language as he watched the slower line speed and relaxed casting of the other individual. He'd fidget and rock with the false casting, then lean forward into the forward cast... It seemed like it was about all he could do to restrain himself from ripping the rod from the other's hand, make a haul, and give it a good hard flick.

The other caster kept talking about how (in real freshwater fishing situations) you just really never need to cast further with a five weight than what he was doing (about 50 feet or less), and that he certainly didn't want to work hard to do so. His stroke was very relaxed, and he looked like he could have been reading a book while casting. Line speeds were much slower, and his loops were also wider than the other gentlemen's. Still tight, but noticeably wider, especially as his distance increased. He never made a haul (double or otherwise) that I could detect, and argued that it was simply a tool for use when needed. (e.g.: casting into a headwind) He also argued that by improving your casting stroke (technique), you will consistently get far more distance than you ever will by double hauling. He even called the DH a crutch employed by those with poor technique to acquire some extra distance in their cast. "Besides" he said, "working hard to cast isn't pretty." Which really got the dander up of the other.

The debate raged on, and in the end they were both laughing at each other, and neither of them conceded anything. But they appeared to be old friends, and obviously still were when all was said and done. If nothing else, there was a lot of mutual respect for the other's abilities.

As for me... well that's why I?m posting here. After watching and listening to what these two had to say, I'm evaluating my own approach to casting, and I'd like a broader cross section of the fly casting community's views and experience to draw on.

So what say ye? Do you need a five weight (or lighter line) to be able to reach out to 60, 80, 90 feet and beyond? Should casting be "effortless" until you really need to reach out? Can it be effortless with the lighter lines at distances beyond 50 feet? Is the double haul a crutch for many (most)? Will improving one's casting technique more than compensate for not using a haul in many (most) cases?

In forming my own opinion I'd like to know... what's yours?

---David

p.s. I know any generalization is fraught with errors and exceptions. It's okay. Just draw a line in the sand and take a stand.

[Jack Hise]

There are those that claim there way of casting is the only way. I don't agree as each may develope his own style. Just watch Lefty Kreh or Bob Clouser.

Casting should be as effortless as possible, why wear yourself out.

I DH can split the work load between the casting hand and the off hand.

Reaching 60, 70 even 90 feet is not needed in most situations, plus it's hard to set the hook!

[Marco]

As for me, I couldn't even begin to explain my casting style to anyone. All I know, I seem to get the fly to where I want it to go and give it NO special thought. I do recognize, however, when someone else is doing it "wrong". But, to clarify "wrong", it's when the timing between cast and backcsat is waaayyyy off and the line creates an "s" instead of a long legged "u".

Mark

[sagefisher]

Utah David,

Sounds like those two were having fun and may have been Certified Casting Instructors since they were so interested in evaluating each others style of casting.

On freshwater, being able to cast 50 to 60 feet is important. Beyond that you are getting into line management problems, especially if you are on a river and not a lake. With the varying speeds of the rivers water between you and your fly, anything past 60 feet makes it really difficult to present the fly drag free. Not to say there are not times you may need to cast farther or may have a situation where you want to cast 80 or 90 feet, but those are rare indeed.

For my dry fly casting on the larger rivers of out west, I use medium action rods. A Sage ZXL 9ft 6 wt or an older Sage VPS Light 9 ft 5 wt. The medium action rod casts with a slower cast, allowing for great line control and distance. However, when you do need to punch the line out to fight the wind, both rods will allow you to put a lot of power and more speed into the cast, yet they still allow the fly to be presented in a good presentation.

I was recently casting on the Clark Fork River in western Montana with 25 MPH winds and gusts to 35, using a double dry rig with two large Skwalla dry flies. I had to do a lot of punching of the line to fight the wind. But when the wind would die down, I was able to slow my cast.

Casting is an individual thing. You can and should learn from a CCI to get the basics down and not develop bad casting habits. After that you will start making your casts the way you want to, the way it feels right for you. The main thing, get out and cast, get out and fish, get out and have fun.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[CaseyP]

isn't it interesting how different some techniques are to others, and isn't it interesting how sure some are that their way is the only way! really, it's about finding a technique that fits your fishing, isn't it?

a teacher myself, i just love what i was once told is the Korean definition of a "teacher": one who is present when learning takes place.

[Buddy Sanders]

You can approach this thing in a number of ways.

Is it about the cast, or about the presentation?

Is it about how far, or how accurate?

Is it about what works, or what looks good?

Is it about effort, or comfort?

There really is no right or wrong answer.

I've always subscribed to the school of getting the job done, however it works for you.

If you are getting your fly to the fish, catching some, and not finding that your casting ability is costing you opportunities, then I'd say you are doing fine and would see no need for any kind of change.

If you are dissatisfied with your casting, for whatever reason, then by all means work on it.

Even if everyone you know has an opinion on the 'right way' to cast, if what you are doing works for you, then you ARE doing it right.

We all fish for our own reasons, and we all cast the way we cast.

Buddy

[DaleW]

Utah David ~ of all my flyrods the 5wt is my choice, so much so that I have tree of them! And for the most part long distance casting is for showmanship, except maybe when I do the salt flats casting for red drum and which is not very often. For my regular fresh water fishing casting beyond 40' is simply not necessary. So I have concentrated on accuracy at that distance (or less) and don't do too bad. Now I can reach out further but at the cost of the accuracy. So I can do the 40 footers all day long and enjoy it ... plus within 40' is where I've caught the most fish anyway.

[WarrenP]

What a great post! You were presented with a very interesting show from those 2 old friends and I feel you walked away with something to think about and try which is great. I am one of those who has never had a casting lesson and just fish. I have always said that as long as I can get the fly where I wanted it I am satisfied, but, to be honest, I still try and improve on my casting "style". I have a very good friend here that is a Certified Casting instructor and he just loves to help anyone with casting and does it at no charge because he is just that kind of person who gathers great satisfaction from teaching others. I have told him several times that I probably should take advantage of his knowledge with casting and he just smiles and tells me he has watched me fishing and that I am doing fine, but, I still envy his ease of casting. Everytime someone asks me if I know of anyone who can help them with their casting, I take them to my friends house and just sit back and listen and watch. I will then take what I have heard and watched and apply it to my casting to see if I can acquire what I have watched my friend do so many times and that is the ease of his casting. As you watch him, he is just so graceful with casting. He will strip off 30 to 40 feet of fly line and make a few casts to get a feel for your rod and then he will strip off all the fly line and leave it on the ground and make a few casts and let it go. All the fly line will leave the ground and lay out in front of him in a "perfect" cast. He then will look at me and just smile. I have never cast the whole line and probably never will. I do not even try to because I just feel it serves no purpose for me since all I use a fly rod for is fishing my rivers and I do not have a need to cast the whole line. My main goal is to acquire my friend's ease of casting. He makes it look so effortless and graceful. I could watch him all day. I have even seen him strip off a lot of fly line and lay the rod on the ground and keep 60 or 70 feel of fly line up and make beautiful loops with just using his hands with no fly rod! He is just amazing to watch! I have seen him make a few casts with another person's fly rod and then look at them and ask if they have the fly rod overlined because of the way the rod felt when he was casting it. He just has a "feel" with a fly rod.

I do not feel that a person who is using a fly rod and enjoying it should spend a lot of time trying to improve his casting style so that he or she can cast like another person claims they should cast. Instead, they should always try to improve their casting if they want to and not improve for someone eles's benefit. Do your own thing and if it feels good to you, then stay with it as long as it works for you. Now if you are constantly fighting your casting, then maybe you need to get some instructions to see what you may be doing wrong. I feel that my casting is not a thing of beauty, although I have never seen my fly line in the air as I fished because casting is not what I was doing. I was fishing and that was or is the only thing on my mind. I do know that I have a "feel" that I must have or I will start trying new things when casting. That "feel" I want is that while fishing I do not want to feel the rod in my hands. I only want to feel the weight of the fly line and once I have that "feel" I am able to put the fly where I want it. If I cannot feel the weight of the fly line loading the rod, I feel like I am "waving an empty rod" back and forth in the air and have no idea where the line is or where the fly will land.

In closing, if you feel you need to improve your casting to make your fly fishing more relaxing and enjoying, then by all means, do it. If you are comfortable with your casting "style" and it works for you, then just go fishing and enjoy the fly rod. I feel some have laid the fly rod down and gave it up because they spent too much time trying to master the casting that they had watched on TV or a video and never experienced the joy of fishing and catching with a fly rod.

My opinions and nothing more.....

[hap]

Many years ago Polly Rosborough put his hand on my shoulder and said "Son, you cast farther... with less grace... than anyone I have ever seen!"

Polly was about a foot shorter than I am and the compliment was taken exactly as I think he meant it!

I much prefer casting softer rods these days as long as there is still enough rod left in them to achieve some distance. I can still cast long by most any standards, but the need is seldom there.

As to the one comment about hauls being a crutch, I have to disagree with that. No technique short of a haul is going to accelerate line as quickly and easily as a haul.
art

[sagefisher]

PA Dave,

Those are Length Adjustment Knots

Larry ---sagefisher---