+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 29 of 29

Thread: ENTITLEMENT? - Ladyfisher - March 7, 2011

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Davis, IL, USA
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Our elder statesman, Lefty Kreh, pointed out the flaw in our race to own the latest greatest rod with a comparison to 22 rifles. If you skill level is Remington, buying a fancy Italian pea shooter is not going to make you any better. Buying a $1500 rod instead of a $150 only gets you braggin' rights unless you are a world class professional. That said, it is probably some kind of flaw in our culture that makes us crave that $$$$ rod.

    In my flyfishing career there is a 15 year period-1975-1990 when I slept like Rip Van Winkel. I was not sleeping really. Building a family and career kept me away from fly fishing. When I awoke I was delighted to find wonderful inexpensive graphite rods widely available. I still use my Wonder Rods once in a while, but I am honing my skills to match the performance of my new graphite rods. New = purchased after 1990.
    Bear742

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    savannah, georgia
    Posts
    417

    Default

    As usual, Mike, Lefty is right. In fact, it goes further. The trend in rods now to make them faster and faster and lighter and lighter actually makes them more difficult for the novice and intermediate caster to cast effectively in a wide variety of fishing scenarios. Most casting experts agree that a decent medium to medium-fast action 8-9' rod is the easiest on the typical angler who isn't pretty well along the casting learning curve. And many new model rods are getting so light now that two things are becoming major factors in the purchase decision. Many of the lightest tip-flex (fast) rods are more susceptible to breakage. It's just a fact of the way rods are built...laws of physics. And some rods are now so light that they are outrunning the selection of reels on the market that will balance out on them in the appropriate sizes. When the balance is off, the swing weight increases and the gains one should get from owning a lighter rod are negated because your hand-arm muscles are having to compensate for the lack of balance in the rod-reel combo.

    There are two more comparisons to axioms of the shooting sports that bear on fly tackle selection I'll share:

    "A duck killed with a Remington 870 Express ($279) and a duck killed with a Browning Citori ($1000+) are both the same amount of dead."

    There's always been a raging debate about which caliber of handgun is best for personal protection, with various experts falling into different camps and arguing their cases well. But the owner of the Gunsmoke Academy (probably the guy with the longest track record of excellence in handgun defensive shooting instruction in the US and a .45 ACP fanatic) said, "I say carry whatever handgun you shoot the most accurately. If you can hit an assailant between the eyes every time, it doesn't matter whether you shoot him with a .22 or a .45. He's dead either way."

    The point is hype and marketing vs. skill and personal preference. A fella can spend all he wants on a fly rod, but if he can't make an accurate curve cast or a reach cast and maintain a drag-free drift, he's going to have to pass up a lot of fish. But a kid who learns to do those things with a $40 combo from Wal-Mart will fish circles around him.

    There are just more folks in our society today who would rather look like they have stuff than who would rather actually be able to do stuff.
    Last edited by flyguy66; 03-10-2011 at 06:12 PM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders;
    Let us face some disturbing perceptions about our sport. Two of the biggest ones:

    Fly fishermen are wealthy elitists that judge others not by their fishing skills, but by the gear they are able to pruchase.

    Owning that 'new' rod (or reel, waders, vests, etc.) is not about how it fishes, but how it 'looks' to the people who see you fish.

    Basically, what these two 'perceptions' indicate, whether true or not, is that the image of fly fishing has become similar to the one of Hollywood celebrity. Seeing who can out shine their peers on the red carpet. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by flyguy66;
    The point is hype and marketing vs. skill and personal preference. A fella can spend all he wants on a fly rod, but if he can't make an accurate curve cast or a reach cast and maintain a drag-free drift, he's going to have to pass up a lot of fish. But a kid who learns to do those things with a $40 combo from Wal-Mart will fish circles around him.

    There are just more folks in our society today who would rather look like they have stuff than who would rather actually be able to do stuff.

    Unfortunately it seems flyfishing has been tagged with these perceptions but not other types of angling. Yet the same basic characteristics of these perceptions can be applied to other types of anglers included bass, inshore, and bluewater circles. At least so it seems here in southern California where we see a lot of people that have to have the latest $500 dropshot rod or $600 spinning reel or $750 casting reel. I have been a part of conversations where guys with $50K bass boats who go on the water with rod lockers full of high end rods and reels rigged with $100 lures, and who wouldn't be caught using more pedestrian gear, yet refer to fly anglers and the fly angling industry as a whole as elitist and exclusive.

    Flyguy66 pretty much summed up perfectly with a couple of basic truths that apply to so many activities or endeavors, whether it be flyfishing, or bass fishing with gear, or photograpy, of softball, etc.


    As flyguy66 illustrated in an example, certain elements of the flyfishing industry are not always helpful to their own cause and if often seems that many in the industry are out of touch from the typical fly angler with a modest budget. On the water my friends and I are often engaged by other anglers who are interested in fly fishing. Many have looked into it but been put off by spiels they received from reps at sportsmans shows or even shops and see fly angling as too expensive. After a few discussions about equipment and tactics, maybe a loan of some gear and some friendly and free instruction, and gift of a few flies often those perceptions are erased. Some are even later seen on the water with fly tackle.
    Last edited by tailingloop; 03-10-2011 at 09:03 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Littleton, Colorado
    Posts
    2,256
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flyguy66 View Post
    The point is hype and marketing vs. skill and personal preference. A fella can spend all he wants on a fly rod, but if he can't make an accurate curve cast or a reach cast and maintain a drag-free drift, he's going to have to pass up a lot of fish. But a kid who learns to do those things with a $40 combo from Wal-Mart will fish circles around him.

    There are just more folks in our society today who would rather look like they have stuff than who would rather actually be able to do stuff.
    BINGO! I have run across many people, myself included, that vastly prefer the medium fast casting stroke of a rod built on a Sevier blank (Yes, the least expensive blank out there.) over the super fast high end factory rods. This is one of the reasons the Orvis Trout Bum rods are so popular. People can actually cast them and put the fly where they want it to go.

    Some of our esteemed members have the skill and ability to fish the super fast blanks. The average fly angler does not. I learned a long time ago that I am not likely to be the next Lefty or whoever the current greatest caster is. I want to have fun with a rod and struggling to fish a super fast rod is not fun for me.
    Kevin


    Be careful how you live. You may be the only Bible some person ever reads.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    shamokin, pa.
    Posts
    933

    Default

    flyguy66,

    It's hard (for ME) to get too excited anymore with commercially made, graphite (or equivalent man-made materials) fly rods thats performance level(?) is beyond most peoples ability and pocket books! Custom made rods are a different story - you are buying a specific makers handicraft/artistic ability. I feel the same way about guns. There is definitely a cut-off point in the design of shotguns, where you would feel it has reached its maximum potential, as a hunting implement. However, once you have reached your full potential, you do start looking at the value of the craftsmanship, and owning a shotgun made with say - a nicer grade of wood, or some engraving. It will not make you a better shot, but it's not about that, it's about the appreciation of the art and skill that went into it. Why buy a beautiful wooden trout net when you can buy an aluminium/graphite one? - because you admire the skill and craftsmanship that went into it.(that's why I don't like that new Ghost (rubber) netting - it severely detracts (ugly) from a fine piece of wood workmanship! IMHO. There are some who will buy stuff for the name only, I'm not one of them. If I don't put my personal "seal of approval" on it - your name might as well be mud - cuz I'm not impressed! I will also say that there are a number of "names" out there that are synonymous with quality, and throwing their name about is not so much bragging, but more of a indication of "getting your moneys worth" If a shotgun owner mentions the name "Purdy" are you automatically thinking "Snob" or are you thinking - yes, those are some of the finest made shotguns in the world! I personally would think the latter. YMMV. Just because I can't afford something, doesn't mean I won't appreciate it for its own artistic value. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I admire the craftsmanship and the design/functionality of a product, but when the functionality goes beyond my abilities, the only thing that can get me to pay more for it is it's craftsmanship! Hope I haven't confused anyone with my sometimes(?) circuitous rambling. Hey, you think your heads spinning - I have to live with myself - count yourself lucky! LOL!!!

    Best regards, Dave S.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Denver, Co.
    Posts
    439

    Default

    There are possible two sides to Fly- Fishing the way I look at the sport. The ying, the economics, and yang the aesthetics. There is always the push and pull and I find myself much more satisfied on the aesthetic side.

    I really feel that which ever way the sport goes there will always be souls like me who carry on in spite of fads, downturns, and upturns, in economics. I also feel the young ones (and old ones) will come along without any prodding and be attracted by the same things I was. I don't know exactly what we are attracted too but it happens, and all I know it that it is a good thing. The cost of this experience is zero dollars.

    I love craftsmanship and art. Each ones attention to detail is after all the reason the species keeps it's hold on the top of the chain and get's better at doing things, not how much we can profit from it. My feeling is that profit margins stall creativity.

    So carry on, I can dodge my way through the economics and hoop-la and will still be fly-fishing when most have given it up to the frustration that has to me always been part of the sport.
    "As far down the river as he could see, the trout were rising, making circles on the surface of the water, as though it were starting to rain."- E.H., The Big Two Hearted River

  7. #27
    nighthawk Guest

    Default

    I don't really get too riled over the manufacturers expecting us to buy a new rod every year because everybody has to make a living. However, like all Americans the only things they are entitled to are Life, Liberty and The Pursuit Of Happiness so long as they do not interfere with the God given rights of others.

    Are the latest and greatest they tout every year better than last year's product? Maybe but only if there has been a quantum leap in the materials and or construction techniques. Otherwise it is window dressing, lipstick on a pig or whatever you want to call it. On their side of the coin can you imagine say a car salesman having nothing but the exact same model, style and options to offer year upon year? They won't be in business very long.

    Personally I don't buy the latest and greatest just because they are there. I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth and do not subscribe to the keeping up with the Joneses thing. Can I afford to go out and buy the newest rod from XYZ? Yes. Will I? No. I am more likely to pick some model that has been out a few years with the bugs now worked out of it or even more likely to buy something custom made off someone trying to make a go of it with their own shop. They won't make any money off of me with the latest and greatest because I enjoy fishing the old rods with their patina, their battles scars while thinking about the fly fishers of the past who have owned that rod.

    Sorry. Kind of rambling there. Really the only thing any of us are entitled to are the God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness so long as we do no harm to others.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    savannah, georgia
    Posts
    417

    Default

    I think everyone is making good points. I love fly fishing because it is such a multi-faceted, full-blown lifestyle sort of thing - not just a sport, art, science, or business. And I can identify with the themes each of you bring up. I don't see them as contradictory, but complimentary. And the only thing that gets me a bit "worked up" about the industry is that since getting talked into founding AFFI, Inc. I have to interact with and even depend upon a lot of different companies in the industry in order to accomplish the goals of our organization. It can become frustrating at times to have to deal with folks who don't really understand what they are doing, or to get caught up in some last minute swindle because an owner is trying to squeeze out an extra buck as he sells his company to a bigger player. And as a teacher of this stuff, I'd really prefer not to have to UN-teach a bunch of stuff before I can teach stuff. But these are very minor annoyances...more along the lines of "in a perfect world I wouldn't have to..." types of things. Well, I have no illusions about the world conforming to my wishes! LOL

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    349

    Default

    Lots of great thoughts here. I have to admit that I have never actually felt like the industry expected me to buy a new rod every year. It's their business and letting the other guy get ahead is always dangerous, so they move forward with the latest and greatest. For me, the strides they make provide the technology that I will enjoy in 10 or 15 years when it becomes old fashioned.

    Most flyfishers I have met have an old favorite that they still fish regularly even though they may have picked up the latest and greatest, because they appreciate what the old can do. One of my favorite rods is an inexpensive old fiberglass rod from the '70s that I bought at auction and rebuilt. Total cost: $38.00.

    Maybe a few years after the kids are through college, I will spring for a high-end rod, and I really hope that all those manufacturers are still out there.
    A right emblem it may be, of the uncertain things of this world; that when men have sold them selves for them, they vanish into smoke. ~ William Bradford
    I finally realized that Life is a metaphor for Fly Fishing.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts