Where did all the newbies go?
I first found FAOL when I was a newbie. I think I was one of many at the time who were using this and other sites to get information about fly fishing. And, hot darn, did I ever get some great information from this site! I am incredibly grateful for that.
But, I've noticed that there are very few posts these days on this or other fly fishing boards I visit from newbies seeking information. Very, very few!
What do you think is happening to cause this? I'm really perplexed about it.
It is the economy, may people are still without jobs, companies are still laying off employees, or shorting their hours. When have two political parties that are not participating together to resolve the countries economic woe's! The country's government budgets are in the red, more going out than coming in.
In the 1930's Will Rodgers said,"It is a Recession when the other guy is out of work, it is a Depression when you are out of work!"
The government say that the nation is in a recession, to to many it feel like a depression!
Needs, Wants, and What You Get, are three different items, for most households. Sometimes you have to do without.
Today we live in a Global Economy, where many jobs and manufacturing and business in the United States, have been shipped oversea.
The world is in crisis, the common person is hunkered down in their bunkers, waiting out this economic and moral collapse of our government and businesses. We are small people, with the big boys battling for control of our government. They do not care who they hurt, to push forward their parties agenda's!
Example:
Professional Sports Atheletes get paid more in one year than most families make in a lifetime. They play their games in ballparks and stadiums that where built from the taxpayers pocket book with sales tax increases on the families purchases. This county is now divided between the few that have too much, and the many that have too little!
Fly Fishing is too expensive to start, when you barely getting food on the table, keeping a roof over your families head, and wondering if you will have a job next week.
As with most things, I sometimes think the internet may be a mixed blessing. I often wonder if I was just thinking about starting fly fishing today, would I do it.
Back in the day (before the invention of electricity), when I first started fly fishing. I followed my natural inclination and bought a cheap rod, reel and line, along with a few flies, and had at it. I didn't know any better. I caught fish and had fun, the rest is history.
If I was just getting started today, I'd check into the popular fly fishing forums, and ask the infamous "What do I need to get started fly fishing for bluegills in my local subdivision ponds?" I know I'd get alot of well intentioned advice from the "experts". In most cases, the advice would be "Go large or stay home." A typical "starter" outfit suggestion would usually include a rod that cost at least a couple hundred, a $100 + reel, $60 fly line, vest, fly box full of flies, and assorted accessories.
As was previously discussed, that be pretty tough to swing if I happened to currently be unemployed and looking for something to help me cheaply pass all my newly found spare time. I'm not criticizing the advice given since it is given with the best of intentions, but I certainly see why it would cause some folks to decided to take up something cheaper, like golf or power boat racing.
Last edited by pszy22; 09-10-2010 at 11:07 AM.
"People tend to get the politicians and the fishing tackle they deserve" -
John Gierach, Fishing Bamboo
http://www.tenkaraflyfish.blogspot.com/
My memory isn't what it used to be, so just to make sure it wasn't just my imagination, I just took a look at another well known forum. Here's the advice given for a starter outfit -
ABC's Pick
1. Fly Rod: TFO 5wt, 9' length. $149.95, Redington Red.Fly 2, 9' 5wt. $99.00
2. Fly Reel: Lamson Konic $129, Redington Rise 5/6 $159
3. Fly Line: RIO Selective Trout II WF-Floating $65, SA Mastery WF-Floating $65
4. Estimated Cost: $293 to $374, Based on equipment selected.
XYZ's Pick
1. Fly Rod: Sage Launch 9' 5 weight 2 pc. $199. 4 pc. $225
2. Fly Reel: Lamson Konic 2 $129.
3. Fly Line: Rio Selective Trout $64.
4. Estimated Cost: $375. to $425
I don't necessarily think this advice is bad, as long as the new person is sure they will like fly fishing, and have the funds available. However if funds are tight, or I'm just toying with giving it a try, I may decide to try something else.
"People tend to get the politicians and the fishing tackle they deserve" -
John Gierach, Fishing Bamboo
http://www.tenkaraflyfish.blogspot.com/
Just my opinion, but I think that it has far less to do with the economy and far more to do with the community. And I don't think its a bad thing.
Think about how many fly fishing sites you've been to, and of those, how many actively encourage beginners. Most, if not all of them, right?
Eventually, when a community gets asked the same handful of beginner questions enough, they decide to make a permanent 'beginners guide', whether a sticky thread or a separate subsection of the site (as we have here). Eventually bots from the major search engines find these pages and add them to the results they show, and within a few months, the same google search that returned the FAOL message board months ago, now links directly to the section for beginner fly fishing. I know this because it happened to me. It wasn't until after I'd read the entire beginner fly fishing and fly tying sections that I even realized the site had a bulletin board attached.
By the time a beginner navigates to the BB, they're already familiar with the beginners section and, as most people are fairly sensible, they'll check to see if something is covered there before asking a question about it here, which is the sensible thing to do. Folks are capable of shopping online for a fly fishing setup in their price range once they determine what exactly they're looking for, and the beginners section gives them that knowledge. By the time they get here and have a question for the community, they've progressed beyond "whats a good starter setup?" and on to questions more like "What's your favorite dry fly dubbing?".
i think this was the gist of post #1 so i cant help but wonderingOriginally Posted by oldfrat
"what does the economy have to do with a newbie asking a question on any type of forum/board?"
as mentioned above in #2
Last edited by Normand; 09-10-2010 at 12:41 PM.
This
As well as this. It has become a sport of MUST...In most cases before you are EVEN OUT THE DOOR, you absolutely MUST spend at least six to seven hundred dollars to get a "starter" outfit (Including the obligitory 250 dollar pair of waders, the sixty dollar fly box, eighty dollar net, etc). You MUST spend this ammount to by "entry level gear" and "enough to get you started" just to see if you like it and can figure out how to do it. Any casting question or problem is solved with you MUST find someone to give you casting lessons because you can't possibly figure out how to do it on your own by reading or (thank God for UTube) watching videos. You see the point.
A couple of years ago helped a friend of mine get started in fly fishing. Redington Crosswater 5 weight (very underrated stick. I like it so much I bought one for myself), $99. Gander Mountain Breathable Waders (another excellent value for boot foot waders, maybe for Christmas), $129, Frabil Net, $25. Vest was free and I gave him the fly box, flies and gadgets. That's still $250 and some change and that's considered cheap...
And it's not just fly fishing...Check out a bass forum and see how many refer to 100-200 dollar rods as "low end" and 100-200 dollar reels as "OK"...
If it wasn't for classified ads and closeout sales, I'm not sure that I could afford it either.
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it. What happens is that you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore." - John Gierach
i'm not a newbie by any means and getting back into fly fishing after about 12 years away and selling all my fishing gear. first thing i notice is how prices have gone north, as in up! if not for the FAOL For Sale section, links to various FF dealers from FAOL, the internet, and knowing my way around i'd be very discouraged. So far here's a list of stuff, the bare essentials to "get back in" i've found.
Rod - Albright 9' 4 wt 5 piece AS5 - $90, for sale section at faol
Reel - Lamson Velocity - $143.90 - closeout from madison river fishing co. more than i wanted to pay but jeez it was a great deal.
Line - Allen WF4F 2 color - $18.75 shipped
Backing - TJ's Bear Den - $9.06 shipped
Leaders - Monofilament spools from walmart - about $15, i'll get 100 yd. spools of monofilament to tie leaders at about $3.00 a spool and should be a lifetime supply
Total - $276.71
I'll need 2 or 3 fly boxes from walmart at about 4 bux each.
i have a fanny pack that works well to carry flies, leader nippers, hemostats, pliers and all that stuff. i can easily see 450/500 bux to outfit with the other accessories if i was to go that route.
fortunately i tie and have material, hooks and tools from back in the day.
yes, i'd be very discouraged to be a newbie and try to "get into" from scratch.
"There's more B.S. in fly fishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot." Lefty Kreh
I can't say about fly fishing but there's a lot of feed lots in Kansas.
Wes' Pattern Book
http://www.flypatternbook.net
I gotta agree with DaveP on the cost of starting. While you can get a much better than you would expect outfit from Walmart for much less than a c-note, that is still higher than I think it needs to be.
I can't see where a low end fly outfit should cost any more than a low end spinning combo. A rod is a rod to manufacture and fly reels are less complicated to make than spinning reels by a long shot.
That aught to start an argument.
Kevin
Be careful how you live. You may be the only Bible some person ever reads.
With the wealth of information available on the web, I think a lot of the questions from someone new to the sport may have already been asked/answered multiple times and all they need to do is view the results. Probably a number of them lurk on forums for a while until they feel comfortable enough to engage in conversation. I don't think the economics of flyfishing keep too many people from at least giving it a try - you can go on EBay and get a real nice outfit put together, used but solid gear, for about what 3 rounds of golf (with cart) would cost at the local public course.
Oldfrat, hope the fires aren't too close to home; looks like a pretty bad burn. Be safe.
Regards,
Scott
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
