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Thread: GOING AROUND AGAIN - Ladyfisher - July 26, 2010

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  1. #1
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    Default GOING AROUND AGAIN - Ladyfisher - July 26, 2010

    GOING AROUND AGAIN

    I know intellectually that things go in cycles, the weather, the economy, styles of clothing and how many feet of shoreline are exposed on the Great Lakes. Of course there are various fads, hot cars, sports which seem to grab the attention of the public, and there are certain films which strike a chord, music of one sort or another. Give it a few years and it comes back around.

  2. #2
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    Default More Things Change, The More Things Stay The Same....

    More things change, the more things stay the same!

    Just how much difference is there in the fishing rods of yesterday, in comparison to those sold today?

    They all have a handle, reel seat, and striping/snake/tip-top guide. You have the same choice in action, you have more options as to materials used in the fishing rods construction.

    Same applies to the reels that you put on the fishing rods. They still have the same functions, storage of fishing line, a handle to wind the fishing line back in, and some sort of brake mechanism to adjust the drag on the line (as it comes off the reel).

    Lines are still lines, and silk for the most part has been replace with nylon, and PVC materials.

    Hooks are hooks and always will be.

    I started fly fishing with a Cortland CL Series (6 weight) two piece 9 foot fly rod, cost me a $100 back in 1995 and I still fish with it.

    All the way home from the Fish-In I was muttering...Gotta Get A Gatti. I was smitten just like that frog in the story book the "Wind in the Willows"!

    It is all Denna's fault that I got hooked on a Italian Fly Rod by Gatti, after testing Denna's Gatti at the 1999 South Dakota Fish-In. I knew that I could not afford a store bought Gatti (they went for $500 back then) but I knew that I just might be able to build my own Gatti Fly Rod for half the cost. Not only build it for half the cost but make it even better than the store bought version. French Style Reel Seat w/ Lake Superior Agent Reel Seat Cap. Burled Cork Handle. Titanium/Nitrite stripping/snake/tip-top guides.

    The blank was a sapphire blue with silver metallic flakes. So I found a light cornflower blue guide wrapping thread that would match the color of the rod blank, if I did not use color protector solution before applying the epoxy....

    Total Cost $250, then there was the part where I broke the tip section of the 3 piece rod blank when wrapping the guides, and a new tip costs $50, but the shipment from Italy (where Gatti) are manufactured was $70, and the cost of the International Money Order was $30...

    So I ordered two tips, and that way cut the cost of replacing the tip section in half, with a spare tip if it every happened again.

    After all was said and done, I could not put just any reel on this "Lady Fisher", so I bougth a Teton.... and it has been heaven on earth anytime I have cast it out over the water.

    The Gatti was like a magic wand in my hand, I could do no wrong, my casts went where I cast them, and today it is still the only 3 weight fly rod that I fish with.

    You don't need the top of the line fly rod to go fishing, there are many out there that will do just fine, in most cost brackets. What you do have to checkout before you put down the money for the purchase, is to test the action of the rod blank. Find out how fare the rod blank bends, just have someone hold the tip of the fly rod below the tip-top, and gripping the handle apply load to to the fly rod blank.

    Bends only a quarter of the rod length it is a Quick Tip Rod suitable for Dry Fly Presentation. Bends half way that is for flies with more wind Resistance in the cast or flies that absorb water weight from being fished (also helps when you are hooked onto a monster Pike, Muskie, Bass, Trout, Salmon/Steelhead) . Bends all the way to the handle grip, you got a wet fly rod the perfect wet fly rod. And it still has the name I place on the finished side of the rod blank....."Lady Fisher"!~Parnelli

    PS: I could not have built this Gatti (my first attempt) without the articles by Al Campbell.....and the help of many others that helped me in this journey into rod building. Since then I have built two other fly rods both St. Croix Ultra (5wt and 7wt). I have also rebuilt and repaired many fly rods for friends and family.
    Last edited by Steven McGarthwaite; 07-26-2010 at 06:43 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks Lady Fisher, for putting my thoughts into words.
    Where you go is less important than how you take the steps.
    Fish with a Friend,
    Lotech Joe


  4. #4
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    All I can say is...AMEN, AMEN, AMEN. You are starting to see the same "price creep" working it's way into other types of equipment also. Now $150 for a casting rod is considered "low end". REALLY???
    "They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it. What happens is that you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore." - John Gierach

  5. #5

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    Great read! The most interesting point is just how much the availability of bamboo affected our sport. I think another sidebar is the VERY affordable chinese made cane rods. They prove that general cane rods "can" be affordable, if folks want them to be. They are cheaper than the entry level glass in many cases.

    Fortunately for me I am an addict for the older unsanded Orvis rods. My last one being a purchase on Ebay for $66. Although I can appreciate the higher end rods when I cast them, my druthers for the older rods keep me in the sub$200 area for most of my "new" purchases. :^)

    What I find amazing.....is how a company that makes a $150-250 machined alum disc drag fly reel....can't seem to make an honest $100 or less quality click-pawl machined alum reel? Doesn't make sense.

  6. #6

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    Just a thought. I think that many of the upper end manufacturers are getting priced out of the introductory rod market by big box retailers such as cabelas. While the big box retailers often get a bad name in this area they are often the way to go. It is now possible to get an introductory fly set up with a decent rod and reel that comes with a warranty from one of these retailers for around $100 which is much less than the average price that your article quoted for orvis rods. While it is too bad that the orvis, sage, and the other fly rod specialists have not made inroads into this market it makes sense when you think about the economy of scale. This was how I got my start in fly fishing and by being able to have some early success without a lot invested (when I didn't have a lot to invest). Now that I am actually a good enough caster to be able to tell the difference between fly rod actions I tend to be picky-er about my fly rod choices and willing to spend the money to get the results that I want. I don't foresee the big names in fly fishing changing this trend any time soon. However, there is a time and a place for all things and for the begginer that wants an inexpensive rod that still has decent performance and a warranty, cabelas may be the place rather than the local fly shop.

    Just a different perspective on this discussion perhaps. Hopefully when the novices that have bought their rods at cabelas have learned to cast well enough to want a better rod the economy will have improved to the point that they will be able to visit the local fly shop.

  7. #7

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    The only reason prices of rods and reels are so high, is because people continue to pay them. Fly fishing has always been and probably always will be considered high-dollar and exclusive because it is constantly portrayed as such by the majority of people who consider themselves even partly serious about it.

    Sure, owning good quality equipment is great, and there is a certain "pride of ownership", but that needs to be separated from just plain snobbery.

    "Action" (slow, fast) aside, Is there a big difference between a fly rod that retails for $30 and one that retails for $150?? Hell yes. Is there a big performance difference between a $150 and, say, a $350 price point? Not so much. $350 and $1000? No. Be honest. For the VAST majority of fly fishermen, the answer is just no. AS in every sport, there are a very few people who can take advantage of the absolute pinnacle of engineering, maybe 0.001% ? I'm a pretty competent recreational cyclist, but put me on a Pro-team mega-dollar time trial bike and I'm still the big fat slow guy.... Can I honestly produce results based on the difference between a $99 Huffy and a $1000 Cannondale? Absolutely. How 'bout the differences between a $1000 and a $10,000 bike? Not really. Same with most fly fishermen and fly rods.

    I'd say that easily 95% of fresh and saltwater fly fishing could be totally enjoyed by 99% of people with an outfit that costs less than $150... probably less. If you know how to use a reel and have even a tiny bit of ingenuity, the heat-dissipating, unobtainium-alloy, state of the art, whoop-de-doo drag system is pointless in the vast majority of situations. Oh yeah, we need that super-high-tech drag on a reel that holds a 3wt line and 25yds of backing... Go up in scale to say an 8wt outfit and imagine you have a 20lb salmon hooked in flowing water and you let it have the whole line and 100 yds of backing out. How much resistance does all that line cause? A LOT. Up close, the last thing you want is a tight drag when a big fish makes a quick lunge.

    Just like everything else in life, those folks who get some extra $$$ to spend want to believe that expensive gear will make them more competent in whatever hobby they undertake. The same as motorcycles, cars, bits of pottery, whatever, they're only WORTH what someone is willing to pay for them.

  8. #8

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    Have heart, Ladyfisher. There've just got to be a whole bunch of kids out there as gullible as I was to the lure of the sport. To me, fly fishing was a condensation of all the good things nature had to offer. Being streamside with a fly rod, cheap, unbalanced, unwieldy or otherwise, and being able to catch a trout, was everything in the world to me. I shunned expensive equipment because of two things: The lack of money (very important), and a propensity to be somewhat equipment unfriendly while pursuing the sport. There's nothing more depressing than spending a lot of money on a rod and then slamming a car door on it. There's no reason, too me, that fly rods have to be of outstanding quality in order to attract new entrants to fly fishing. So long as they are usable at all, a WalMart fly rod package, when coupled with a genuine love of the outdoors, should suffice. Its a mentality, the way I see it, and if the mentality isn't there, then there isn't much pleasure, anyway. Tight lines!

  9. #9
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    I have to agree with wgflyer on this one. In my entire life (which spans over a half a century), I have never had anything close to an 'upper-end' rod. I have only owned 6 fly rods in my entire life, and I still have 5 of them. I have owned 1 South Bend (which was stolen in the 70s), 1 Eagle Claw 5wt, 6-1/5' fiberglass rod, and 3 Scientific Anglers rods, a 4/5, a 6/7, and a 9/10 wt., and 1 bamboo rod with 2 tips that belonged to my grandfather. And I fish with them constantly. I don't see how anyone could get any more enjoyment out of their equipment than I do, and I count myself lucky that I have what I do.

    I guess it's sort of like the guy that felt bad because he didn't have any shoes......until he met a man that had no feet.

    I really can't see how there could be that much difference in $500.00 rod, and a $100.00 rod if they are made of the same material, and the same weight. There is only so many ways you can make a rod. I can't see $500.00 in any rod. I think it is like guitars. The main difference between a $200.00 Epiphone, and a $800.00 Epiphone is the finish. Martins are the same way. The only differences between a D-15 (around $699.00), and a D-45 ($2500.00 and up) is the amount of Mother-Of-Pearl, fancier tuners and hardware, and maybe a little better finish. Does a D-45 play, or sound any better than my D-15? NO WAY! my D-15 is the sweetest sounding and best playing guitar I have ever picked up. I wouldn't trade it for 3 D-45s. It's old, the finish is almost non-existent, but it sounds like angels, plays like hot butter, and it's mine. I am the same way about my rods.

    The saying" You get what you pay for." is only true to a certain point. There is a point of Diminishing Returns, on everything. I am also an an avid bicyclist. The saying holds true up until you hit the $800.00 mark on bicycles. After that, mostly what you are getting is maybe a little cooler paint job, a menacing name-dropping model name, such as the 'Greg Lemond Predator', or the 'Paris Rubaix'. Unless you plan to ride Time Trials (I don't. I am a Vehicular Cyclist), or a pro Racer, you don't need that much bike. Racing bikes have every little new high-tech contraption there is on them, and each one is hideously expensive, especially when you realize that their only function is to help you shave 1/100th of a second off of your time. For a Racer, who is trying to make a living, 1/100th of a second is the difference between maybe paying the rent, or living in the Team Trailer. For the rest of us, 1/100th of a second is negligible.

    The average mark-up on any manufactured item averages 2.52% by the time it gets to the consumer. This is assuming a normal marketing route from manufacturer, to wholesale distributor, to retail, to consumer. So, for a $1000.00 rod, the manufacturer is saying it cost them $520.00 to make each rod??? I think not! And we're not even talking about custom, all hand-made rods here. SO somewhere along the line, someone is cleaning up on profits.

    My only advice is to not buy expensive rods. Sooner or later, the message will get through, and the price will drop to one that the market will stand.

    In the mean time, what ever rods you have....go out and use them. There are few things more wholesome than spending time on the water, in quiet reflection.

    Quote Originally Posted by wgflyer View Post
    Have heart, Ladyfisher. There've just got to be a whole bunch of kids out there as gullible as I was to the lure of the sport. To me, fly fishing was a condensation of all the good things nature had to offer. Being streamside with a fly rod, cheap, unbalanced, unwieldy or otherwise, and being able to catch a trout, was everything in the world to me. I shunned expensive equipment because of two things: The lack of money (very important), and a propensity to be somewhat equipment unfriendly while pursuing the sport. There's nothing more depressing than spending a lot of money on a rod and then slamming a car door on it. There's no reason, too me, that fly rods have to be of outstanding quality in order to attract new entrants to fly fishing. So long as they are usable at all, a WalMart fly rod package, when coupled with a genuine love of the outdoors, should suffice. Its a mentality, the way I see it, and if the mentality isn't there, then there isn't much pleasure, anyway. Tight lines!
    Last edited by Gigmaster; 08-02-2010 at 01:07 PM.

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