Tenkara

[JohnScott]

Regarding lining fish, just out of curiosity, how long a leader/tippet do y'all usually fish?

... I am using is a combined line / leader. The first 8' or so ( line plus leader butt section ) are ten strands, the next 2' or so are eight strands, and the approximate 2' tip section is six strands. A tip ring is incorporated. I use between 3' and 5' of tippet, usually 5X mono as recommended by TenkaraUSA. Shorter tippet length for larger flies : longer tippet length for smaller flies.

I fish moving water for trout almost exclusively. And I only fish for nearsighted, color blind, and dumb fish, so I don't much worry about how close my line / leader gets to a fish or if I line a fish occasionally.

John

[CM_Stewart]

I just had an order for Chartreuse.

I told him he might have to provide his own thread, cuz I though you might only have earth tones

(Chartreuse is my second choice behind white.)

[CM_Stewart]

just out of curiosity, how long a leader/tippet do y'all usually fish?

Four feet. Straight 5x for wets and scuds, but when I fish a dry fly I'll often use 8" each of 0x, 2x, and 4x, then 2' of 5x.

To the extent possible, I keep the line is out of the water so I don't think much tippet is needed.

My line itself is generally the length of the rod.

And as John has found out, it is amazing how many nearsighted, color blind, and dumb fish you find when you keep your line off the water.

[pszy22]

My use of Tenkara is probably different from most in that I fish big waters. The waters I fish tend also to be popular and well known. I'm not overly concerned about lining fish. The fish in my home rivers are used to seeing all sorts of long skinny things float overhead - sticks, weeds, canoes, jet boats, tubers, etc. I don't think a bit of line causes them much concern.

I find myself fishing a longer leader primarily for one reason - reach. When I first started fishing Tenkara, I started out with 13' rods. (it just seemed the manly thing to do 8<) ) As I fished more and more, I found that I really enjoyed fishing shorter rods. I like the relative lightness and delicacy they provide, and find they also provide all the fishing functionality of longer rods in the conditions I fish. As I started fishing 12' and 11' rods more and more, I found myself adding a foot or two or three to the line and/or leader to end up with pretty much the same effective fishing range.

[Bamboozle]

I have a couple of questions for the experienced crowd. Sorry for the long winded hijack and some questions that may have been answered elsewhere or be better suited to the manufacturer but I figured this was a good place to start. First the usual background drivel:

I have been on the Tenkara fence for a while after playing around with Heritage Trout's rod on a cold winter day last year. The whole concept is cool! I was thinking that it could be an ideal way for me to fish when its REALLY cold at my winter haunts which are small rocky streams.

When I fish these streams I normally use a 5'0" - 6'6" rod and poke the pockets and pools with a single small beadhead nymph about 12" - 18" under a yarn indicator. While I always catch plenty of fish, the idea of keeping the line off the water has me intrigued as to whether it could increase my catch rates at the really small pockets that can be problematic with conventional tackle. I am also excited about the concept of NO iced up guides!

I have pretty much decided that the 11' Iwana will work best where I have the room so now come the questions that swirl around in my head:

• Will the Iwana like a SINGLE size 18 -14 beadhead and a short piece of plain yarn? If beads and Tenkara don't mix I can easily work around the metal bead issue with a glass or plastic bead or some other flash option. While I feel that the beadhead is effective for me in the winter, I'm sure I can catch fish without it because at most places the depth of the water is 2 feet or less and the fish aren't as picky as I am.

• I have never been a fan of mono furled leaders because of the bird's nest I get when a snag suddenly becomes freed. I know I will get snags where I fish so I wondered if the Tenkara lines are any different in this respect. I have NO problems with thread furled leaders BTW.

• Despite my aversion to mono furled leaders do you think that furled mono would be prone to less freezing than thread remembering that I plan to use this rig when it is COLD. Would plain level mono be the best choice for those sub freezing days?

• If and when I try a furled option I have a feeling that a 7 foot furled line/leader with a couple of feet of 5X plus the 11 foot rod should do me fine until I discover it wont. Would some of my favorite Jack Hise 7 foot leaders fit the bill or is a tweak to the tackle in order like possibly a 10 foot line/leader or a heavier leader?

• Has anybody tried Tenkara when it's below freezing? Beside the normal dos & don'ts is there anything else I should consider in the cold?

Besides this specific winter application I am excited at the thought of an Iwana living permanently in my car for those days when I'm traveling minus the regular fishing kit. I frequently encounter places where ten minutes and a well placed fly in a short run might result in a couple of fish but because I supposed to be doing something else like working, I have no waders or a lot of time. I envision a Tenkara rig as PERFECT for these and other bank fishing opportunities which raises another question:

• Keeping the extremely fine Tenkara rod tip in mind, should I be concerned with keeping a rod in the trunk during the summer months? I realize it is graphite or a graphite composite but I guess anything is possible.

Thanks in advance to any advice, encouragement or discouragement you can provide! Now all I have to do is decide when to pull the trigger.

[CM_Stewart]

I have a couple of questions for the experienced crowd. Sorry for the long winded hijack and some questions that may have been answered elsewhere or be better suited to the manufacturer but I figured this was a good place to start. First the usual background drivel:

I have been on the Tenkara fence for a while after playing around with Heritage Trout's rod on a cold winter day last year. The whole concept is cool! I was thinking that it could be an ideal way for me to fish when its REALLY cold at my winter haunts which are small rocky streams.

When I fish these streams I normally use a 5'0" - 6'6" rod and poke the pockets and pools with a single small beadhead nymph about 12" - 18" under a yarn indicator. While I always catch plenty of fish, the idea of keeping the line off the water has me intrigued as to whether it could increase my catch rates at the really small pockets that can be problematic with conventional tackle. I am also excited about the concept of NO iced up guides!

I have pretty much decided that the 11' Iwana will work best where I have the room so now come the questions that swirl around in my head:

• Will the Iwana like a SINGLE size 18 -14 beadhead and a short piece of plain yarn? If beads and Tenkara don't mix I can easily work around the metal bead issue with a glass or plastic bead or some other flash option. While I feel that the beadhead is effective for me in the winter, I'm sure I can catch fish without it because at most places the depth of the water is 2 feet or less and the fish aren't as picky as I am.
  
  A size 18 - 14 beadhead will be no problem if it's brass rather than tungsten. The rod won't cast the larger one quite as nicely. Personally, I'd experiment with glass beads or other options, because I really like a very light line, and you'll need a heavier line to effectively cast beadhead flies.

[LIST][*]I have never been a fan of mono furled leaders because of the bird's nest I get when a snag suddenly becomes freed. I know I will get snags where I fish so I wondered if the Tenkara lines are any different in this respect. I have NO problems with thread furled leaders BTW.
[/LIST]
Mono furled tenkara lines are just like mono furled leaders, only longer. Some people prefer mono, some prefer thread.

• Despite my aversion to mono furled leaders do you think that furled mono would be prone to less freezing than thread remembering that I plan to use this rig when it is COLD. Would plain level mono be the best choice for those sub freezing days?

Mono may be somewhat less prone to freezing, as it doesn't absorb water, but the furl does allow it to stay wet. I haven't fished tenkara rods below freezing, but I think it might be a problem. pszy22 fished furled mono, though, so he may know for sure. A hand-tied tapered mono leader won't freeze, though, and is a consideration. If it's high vis, you probably wouldn't need the indicator, either.

• If and when I try a furled option I have a feeling that a 7 foot furled line/leader with a couple of feet of 5X plus the 11 foot rod should do me fine until I discover it wont. Would some of my favorite Jack Hise 7 foot leaders fit the bill or is a tweak to the tackle in order like possibly a 10 foot line/leader or a heavier leader?

At that length, you'll be limited to dapping, which might be fine, and I would certainly try it with the understanding you might want to go a little longer. Add 8" each of 0x, 2x and 4x taper between the leader and 2' of tippet and it should work nicely.

• Has anybody tried Tenkara when it's below freezing? Beside the normal dos & don'ts is there anything else I should consider in the cold?
  
  The joints between segments will get wet from the line, and it could be very difficult to collapse the rod at the end of the day with cold wet hands, particularly if the moisture at the joints freezes. You might carry a handwarmer, which might help if held against the joints for a while, and you'll definitely want a Tip Grip to help collapse the rod. - Again, I haven't tried tenkara rods below freezing, so this is just speculation.
  

Besides this specific winter application I am excited at the thought of an Iwana living permanently in my car for those days when I'm traveling minus the regular fishing kit. I frequently encounter places where ten minutes and a well placed fly in a short run might result in a couple of fish but because I supposed to be doing something else like working, I have no waders or a lot of time. I envision a Tenkara rig as PERFECT for these and other bank fishing opportunities which raises another question:

• Keeping the extremely fine Tenkara rod tip in mind, should I be concerned with keeping a rod in the trunk during the summer months? I realize it is graphite or a graphite composite but I guess anything is possible.
  
  I don't know. Would it be safe to keep a regular graphite fly rod in the trunk during the summer months?
  

Thanks in advance to any advice, encouragement or discouragement you can provide! Now all I have to do is decide when to pull the trigger.

If you have other questions - don't hesitate to ask or send me a PM.

[JohnScott]

... for a lot of good ideas regarding Bam's questions.

And Bam, if you have more questions, please post them here so we all get the benefit of the questions and answers.

Regarding the question of thread leaders freezing in subfreezing temps. That probably depends on the material used. My experience using Danville 210 Flymaster Plus thread furled leaders with my standard fly fishing gear is that that particular material does not freeze. I am not positive, because I have not been able to find the specifications for that thread, but I believe that it is nylon and does not absorb water. It does get wet, but it seems to me that it doesn't absorb water and it dries off quite readily with a false cast or two.

Uni is made from a similar material, but it seems to be that it does have a tendency to absorb some water. Most recently, I fished a homebrew furled 6/0 Uni Tenkara line / leader and it went into a "sinking mode" much faster than the Danville product. And it seemed to me that it wanted to sink, whereas the Danville will submerge but not really sink. It may be that the Uni is simply a heavier material than the Danville, which accounted for the sinking, or that the thinner profile of the line was a factor.

Joni noted in a thread last winter that she went from a thread furled leader to a mono furled leader in a situation where her casts would occasionally land on the ice shelf and freeze to it. My guess is that Joni's leader was made with Uni. More anecdotal evidence, perhaps, that Uni might be a material to stay away from in subfreezing temps ?? Hopefully, Joni will pick up on this thread again and elaborate on her experiences with thread furled leaders in cold conditions.

On the question of nymphing with a Tenkara - I have virtually no experience. But a few days ago I was fishing a size 14 four ( glass ) bead nymph sent to me by Grn Mtn Man a while back on my Ayu. I didn't use an indicator but I was fishing it off the bright orange line mentioned above. Just by watching the line movement ( the tip end was submerged but fully visible ) it was very obvious when I had a take. An indicator would have been superfluous.

John

[Heritage Angler]

Howdy Bamb - Long time no see!
Glad to hear our little winter time escapade got you interested in Tenkara.

Knowing the type of fishing you often do, you might want to stick with a level line. When I get into those really tight spots, I prefer either a mono or fluorocarbon leader. I try to keep the length around 10', and add 2 or 3 feet of tippet to the end. I've been using tiny little tippet rings on the end of the leader, and add tippet to that. The leader is usually 15lb test for the entire 10' length.

When I do get snagged, I just collapse the rod completely and hand line the leader in to protect the rod. I often fish up to size 14 beadheads - both brass and tungsten. Most of the time, I'm either bow and arrow casting, or just lobbing the rig upstream. No problem with a tiny yarn indicator as well.

I'd be happy to meet you again and give you the chance to try my Tenkara rod under actual fishing conditions. I've got several different types of leaders you can try as well, but the level line is my favorite for nymphing, and when I know snagging branches is going to be common.

My Tenkara rod lives in my truck. It hasn't been indoors since I saw you last, and it doesn't seem to mind a bit. When it gets wet, I just take it completely apart, and wipe it down with a microfiber cloth before storing it. The design of the rod makes it easy to do. If you're worried about the rod freezing up, you can put a little paraffin wax on the joints when it is apart to prevent it from sticking. I used to be really paranoid about the rod being delicate. They're surprisingly tough, and as long as you avoid side pressure when collapsing them, I doubt breakage would be a problem. Even if you do manage to break it, the top sections would be the most likely ones to break. TenkaraUSA sells replacement tip sections (the top three) for under ten bucks for the set, and the entire rod has a lifetime warranty.

H.A.

[pszy22]

Regarding fishing weighted nymphs/indicators. I think you have three ways to go. If the weight and wind resistance is minimal, you should be all set with a standard tenkara line/leader/tippet configuration.

If the rig you are fishing is more wind resistant, than heavy, I'd suggest going with a heavier tenkara line, preferably furled, to provide more mass to overcome the wind resistance. My fishing tends to be different than most, I often fish my fly damp, on a swing. I often fish a heavier, thicker line to purposely provide surface area in order to swing my fly. The rods certainly cast the heavier line with no problem, actually in alot of respects better than the lighter lines. Of course, you do lose delicacy, but that's often not a particular concern with me when fishing that method. I find a weight forward line configuration to be extremely helpful.

The third option, if you are fishing a heavier nymph, you might want to go with a lighter, single strand line, and in effect, chuck and duck, using the mass of the nymph to carry along the line.

That's one thing I've found about tenkara rods, they are very versatile in what and how they cast. The casting part isn't usually the issue, what can be the issue is how your particular set up fishes once it hits the water.

Regarding fishing in the cold. I've fished cold but not frigid. Fishing in the low 30's and high 20's tends not to be a problem with freeze up. Not that I've done it, but I'd be willing to bet fishing in the lower teens/single digits would. Besides, in my part of the world you'd have to worry about being attacked/attached to a steelhead. I've only accidentally tangled with one so far on a tenkara rod. Steelhead 1, tenkara rod 0. (ended up pulling the lilian off the end of my rod. No damage to the rod, but I did lose my entire line).

When I first read your question, the first thing that popped into my mind was what Chris addressed, getting your rod collapsed after a day of fishing. It's would not take much ice build up to gum things up and make life miserable. I can picture driving home in a blizzard, window open, with a 13 foot rood sticking out.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, I very rarely fish dead drift, particularly subsurface. When I'm fishing sub surface, it's usually a damp fly on the swing, I find myself watching my rod tip. I feel alot of strikes, but I also catch a fair number of fish which are indicated only by a twitch of my rod tip. That's not to say I'm not missing a ton of bites as well, who knows. I don't know if it's the most effective technique, but I'm happy with it.

[Bamboozle]

Chris/John:

Thanks for the input!!

In regards to Danville versus Uni, Uni is polyester while Danville is Nylon. As far as the water absorption of either material I don't know but 6/0 Uni is 135 denier while your 210 Flymaster Plus is 210 denier. So the Danville is heavier by this man's judgement. Your experiences with differences might have to do with the thread construction. Uni is a bonded thread while the Danville is not. Both are waxed but Danville SEEMS to have a heavier and stickier wax applied. POSSIBLY the Danville with loose filaments traps more air and with the extra wax it just floats better? How's that for over analyzing a problem? In any case the sinking of a furled leader isn't an issue with me because I grease mine and assumed I would grease a Tenkara line, yes/no?

I guess the freezing in air thing is what I was wondering about most but I guess for the cost of a few cigars I'll find out what works better in the cold.

The concept of no indicator because of the viability of a Tenkara line never dawned on me although believe it or not, I have had days where an indicator 6" or less above a beadhead did the trick. I guess I could theoretically fish a tippet that short but I don't know if that is a good idea. More experimentation is in order in this regard as well. It will give me something to do between sips from my flask this winter.

pszy22:

Thanks as well! Most of the places I fish in winter are pretty small and really only fish-able by wading. Bank cover can be prohibitive to doing anything but approaching potential fish lies directly from below and casting directly upstream lining the heck out of the fish. The good news is in my experience, they don't care much!

Because of these limitations I fish upstream with a single small beadhead nymph suspended under an indicator, cast directly upstream and allowed to float back dead drift like a dry fly. About 95% of the time I know for a fact my nymph is suspended in the water column well above the bottom like a worm under a bobber. I am happy to report that the fish don't seem to care much about that either. This technique has been deadly effective for me for years on really small streams, especially when dry flies just don't seem to work and it is almost as much fun as dries too! I figured I'd approach Tenkara the same way with the advantage of less drag in the tricky spots.

Besides, unlike some who question the need for a new rod, I'm always looking for excuses!

Ed:

Howdy neighbor!

I guess there are lots of ways and places to approach this but I'm thinking of doing it on certain small Class A & Natural Reproduction streams in our part of Penn's Woods that aren't TOO overgrown; like a certain small SR stream in a certain State Park north of us and some streams in my new backyard. All winter long I am poking around with a short line, a yarn indicator & nymphs. I am amazed at how many fish I catch this way and Tenkara seems like a great way to fish all of those tiny pockets I often skip because the fly line just drags the fly through them. A level line set up with a ring sounds like a great option if my fat fingers will allow me to tie one on the level line. Are you using a clinch knot?

Waxing the joints seems like simple solution to the potential for freezing. I'm not too worried about the freezing joints although why take chances. Having an extra few sections on hand seems like an idea made for "Mr. Every Eventuality" and your truck torture test has convinced me to not worry about the heat. My ever present UL spinning rod will soon have company in the dark confines of my trunk.

Maybe a few beers and/or lunch (at my expense) at the Brass Rail followed by a trip to a certain nearby city park (WITHOUT a fly shop) may offer near ideal water conditions to experiment on. PM me when you have some time.

Thanks again all!!!