Thinner for Dave's Flexament?

[FishnDave]

This is one of those topics that comes up from time-to-time...it would be nice if we could have it "pinned" to it would stay on top.
I was facing this same issue (Flexament getting too thick) several weeks ago. The local Sportsman's Warehouse USED to have the Flexament Thinner. But it doesn't have any now. I grabbed their last bottle of Griffin brand thinner, though. It worked just fine.
Good to know about the Toluene or Xylene and the Shoe Goo, too!

[mahanvey]

Talk about ferggetin what sshemichals you juice to wwwwork wifth? Whate the dudddee said before me is coorrreecccttamundo! You be needinnnn a bunch of air when workin wif dis stuff...

[aged_sage]

Let me address two previous points:

First, Xylene is the less reactive of the two compounds, Toluene and Xylene. They are two of the three organic solvent 'sisters', here listed in decreasing rank of chemical reactivity, and therefore, hazard level: Benzene; Toluene; and, Xylene.

Parnelli makes a good point, but it is an egregious case of overkill! It's like: First hit the bunker with a 500 lb bomb, then follow up with a flame thrower. Next toss in a grenade or two just for back-up; then go in with guns blazing, just in case there were any survivors. If one puts a Toluene soaked rag or paper towel in a bag and deeply inhales the fumes. a la 'glue-sniffers, you will get a high, and if you do this with regularity and over enough time, you can experience permanent lung and brain damage. Xylene potentially can have the same effect, but being less reactive, it takes more of it over a longer period of time to evoke it's effects. As a graduate student, officed in an old WW II 'unfinished' and un-air-conditioned barracks building, I 'lived' with Xylene for seven years in a 8' X 12' office/lab and have suffered NO ill effects, then or now; some 40 years post said exposure. I also used other organic solvents, as needed, in this same environment during the same time period. If either of these solvents were as dangerous as Parnelli contends, they would NOT be readily available in the open market! Just use common sense with it (I know, this is the ultimate oxymoron!) in the house and you should have absolutely no problems.

Frank S. BA, MS, PhD
Biology/Chemistry,
Invertebrate Pathologist/Parasitologist/Marine Fisheries Biologist
Academia/Industry Retired

[Steven McGarthwaite]

Frank: Having been military, I learned early on that it is always better to be safe than sorry later. I have been involved with in mopping up many chemical spills from train wrecks and semi trailers. I also have been called on when electrical transformer (containing PCB's) exploded. The vapors from many household products are very dangerous. I remember a "Far Side" cartoon that showed a women standing next to the plumber who was fixing her kitchen sink drain. The quatation underneath the drawing said, "Lady, you have enough dangerous chemicals under the sink, for the military to do a "Preemptive Strike"! ~Parnelli

PS: My safety talk to the troops always ended with this statement.... "Gentlemen, do not get hurt in anyway during this exercise, because I will be the one held responsible for your stupidity!

[aged_sage]

Parnelli:

I did not have to be "Military" to learn that it was better to be 'Safe Than Sorry'.

I too am an advocate of handling these chemicals responsibly and safely. I have been involved with clean-up of major spills myself, primarily PCB's. I was responsible for eliminating all PCBs, system-wide, for the largest Rural Electric Co-Op in the state of Texas, involving sevearal thousands of gallons of PCB-contaminated oil, to say nothing of the tons of PCB-contaminated equipment that was properly disposed of. I have been responsible for asbestos abatement projects, the proper handling and safe storage of numerous organic and inorganic chemicals, including such things as sulfuric and hydrochloric acid, and railroad tank cars of chlorine gas. I dare say that my experience with such chemicals is on a par with yours, and I see no real value in a game of one-up-man-ship with respect to credentials. That does not alter the facts relative to the hazards/safety of handling these two chemicals.

It is the 'over kill' with respect to these chemicals that I find objectional. There is enough hysteria and paranoia in our society without adding fuel to the fire; especially when it is totally unnecessary. As I said before, if the two chemicals that started this exchange were anywhere near as dangerous as you infer, they WOULD NOT be available on the open market. The big sister (or Mother of these two componds, depending on how you look at them) compound, BENZENE, has been banned for years for this reason. Perhaps we should 'go to the garage, open all doors and turn on a couple of big fans' before we use head cement, the CA glues, or Sally Hansen's Nail Polish. I feel that most on here would agree that to treat head cement, CA glues, or Sally Hansen's, as I have suggested based on your position relative to them, to be ridiculous. My fundamental point is that these two solvents are so widely used in so many different things, that it would be next to impossible to treat them as you suggest, each and every time you might be exposed to them. Granted, the application here is under one's control, whereas many of the other types of exposure are not. But this, in and of itself, does not automatically mean that one situation is any more dangerous or hazardous than the other. After all: Exposure is Exposure!

Cheers,
Frank

[jw healy]

I was under the impression that you could use denatured alcohol to thin Dave's. I am not sure where I read this nor if it will work.

[Bass_Bug]

Never heard or thought of that. If that works any drinkable ethanol (hard liquor) should work as well. Sounds like a good excuse to keep a bottle of your favorite distilled spirits at the tying desk! Then your local liquor store just became a viable fly tying material source! Works for me!!!!

I was under the impression that you could use denatured alcohol to thin Dave's. I am not sure where I read this nor if it will work.

[jmeyerc]

Can you use liquid lighter fluid to the shoe goo to make the dave's fleximent? I was told you could but cannot get it to work. what am I doing wrong? please some help would be hughly appreciated.

Jeanne

[Clay]

Can you use liquid lighter fluid to the shoe goo to make the dave's fleximent? I was told you could but cannot get it to work. what am I doing wrong? please some help would be hughly appreciated.

Jeanne

So what does it do when you add the two together? If it doesn't think and when exposed to thread on a hook dry up then it's junk. Toss it, burn it, get rid of it. What can you do, buy Toluene and move forward or skip all of this and buy a water based flexible cement. It's just a few bucks either way.

[aged_sage]

We are talking about four entirely different organic solvent families here: 1) Ketones (acetone, MEK); 2) aromatics ( toluene & xylene, which are based on the benzene molecule; 2) alcohols, which are relative simple, straight chain molecules (think railcars hooked end-to-end, also known as aliphatics because of this characteristic); and, 4) light fraction petroleum distillates. In one sense, these are all closely related, but each group has its own specific chemical and physical characeristics, and thus will act as a a solvent only for very closely related compounds. As Goop is based on aromatics, toluene and xylene definitely work. Alcohol is out in the cold, as are the ketones.

Low molecular weight alcohols such as isopropyl, DNA(which is ethyl that has had noxious chemicals added to it to discourage one from drinking it and to avoid the very high federal alcohol taxes on it), Everclear (who would want to waste it?), methyl (wood alcohol) and ethyl (grain alcohol) all work as a thinner for both the soft (Flex Coat) and hard (Devcon) epoxies: and NO; the water in 70% isopropyl DOES NOT cause these epoxies to turn milky!

The ketones are solvents in many of our cements such as Sally Hansen's Hard as nails, vinyl cement, etc.

Much like the Hatfield's and McCoy's, as long as you stay on the right side of the road, everything should be OK; but cross the road and you have a very different ballgame. Just don't mix families, as it typically won't work.

Cheers!