Well I pulled the trigger

[Sasha]

After reading a lot about felt vs. vibram boots I pulled the trigger yesterday and moved away from felt. I am going to test out my new boots tomorrow and see how they do. I am excited at the prospect of being able to hike in them I just hope "stick" as well as my felt boots. I am going to try them out first without studs/cleats, if I dislike the experience I will purchase some.

[kglissmeyer]

Sasha, way to go. I think the industry is moving that direction. I got my first pair - Simms Guide Boots - for Christmas and have loved them. I originally posted that I didn't think they were much different than felt, but after about 10 trips I have to admit that they aren't quite as good as felt, and I will probably go to the cleats come Summer. Anyway, I love mine and I'm sure you will too. They are a pleasure to hike in and they don't pick up snow at all.

Kelly.

[Sasha]

Sasha, way to go. I think the industry is moving that direction. I got my first pair - Simms Guide Boots - for Christmas and have loved them. I originally posted that I didn't think they were much different than felt, but after about 10 trips I have to admit that they aren't quite as good as felt, and I will probably go to the cleats come Summer. Anyway, I love mine and I'm sure you will too. They are a pleasure to hike in and they don't pick up snow at all.

Kelly.

I read up on the different boots and I opted for the Rivershed boots. I went with them because (from what I read) they did not suffer from shrinking issues like some of their other models.

[Silver Creek]

Stud em now, don't wait until you slip and fall. Vibram does not grip on rocks as well as felt.

Tom Rosenbauer of Orvis has also made the statement in a podcast that the rubber soles are not yet the equal of felt. Quote, "We have been working on alternative soles for many, many, many years. When rubber first came out we tested them and the pretty much unanimous opinion here at Orvis was that they're awful, they're dangerous. Rubber soles are wonderful on sand, they're wonderful on gravel, they are great on ice and snow, they are good on almost everything but slippery rocks, and slippery rocks are what a lot of wade on all day long. There are some new rubber compounds out there, Vibram has a compound that most of us are using for rubber soles that is better than previous generations of rubber, but still, if anyone tells you that their rubber soled wading boot grips as well as felt on slippery rocks THEY ARE LYING TO YOU! They haven't used it enough. The only way to insure that rubber is as effective as felt is to have it studded. All of the rubber soled wading boots we well at Orvis come pre-studded? We made that stand that we are NOT going to sell a pair of rubber soled wading boots without studs."


See podcast from March 5, 2010 below:

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?subject=6413

[Al Thomas]

I agree, they are not as good as felt. They are pretty good. I got the freestones last spring and fished them all year with no studs. I had a wading staff on every trip and it was needed on a few mud and moss covered rocks. Where they really shine is coming out of the water up a muddy bank, and hiking, they grip very well. I will have studs in them this year and I think they will have all the grip I will need.

I will suggest to put the studs and be done with it. I just wanted to see how they grip without them.

[JohnScott]

Stud em now, don't wait until you slip and fall. Vibram does not grip on rocks as well as felt.

Tom Rosenbauer of Orvis has also made the statement in a podcast that the rubber soles are not yet the equal of felt. Quote, "We have been working on alternative soles for many, many, many years. When rubber first came out we tested them and the pretty much unanimous opinion here at Orvis was that they're awful, they're dangerous. Rubber soles are wonderful on sand, they're wonderful on gravel, they are great on ice and snow, they are good on almost everything but slippery rocks, and slippery rocks are what a lot of wade on all day long. There are some new rubber compounds out there, Vibram has a compound that most of us are using for rubber soles that is better than previous generations of rubber, but still, if anyone tells you that their rubber soled wading boot grips as well as felt on slippery rocks THEY ARE LYING TO YOU! They haven't used it enough. The only way to insure that rubber is as effective as felt is to have it studded. All of the rubber soled wading boots we well at Orvis come pre-studded? We made that stand that we are NOT going to sell a pair of rubber soled wading boots without studs."


See podcast from March 5, 2010 below:

http://www.orvis.com/intro.aspx?subject=6413

With all due respect, Silver, and I think you know how much I respect your opinions from a recent exchange of PMs in which I expressed my regard for your contributions to this Bulletin Board ....

From a reliable dictionary - LYING

"A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly - even when not necessary.
Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie."

Personally, I have a great deal of difficulty placing any credibilty in someone who discounts and dismisses anyone who disagrees with his conclusions as ignorant, incompetent, and dishonest and labels them a LIAR, with an intent to deceive others.

Seems to me that Rosenbauer needs a new attitude or a new editor, or both.

In the meantime, I guess I'll have to rely on the opinions of others who are mature enough to respect honest disagreements and allow for differences in how people experience things. That would include you.

John

P.S. I do believe that in some situations, like tilted, very hard, and very smooth rock surfaces, studs can be dangerous, presenting a significant slipping hazard. I'm wondering if Rosenbauer included a warning about that hazard to go along with the decision they made to not sell rubber soled wading boots without studs ??

[MidgeMadness]

I received a pair of Simms Guideboots with the vibrum soles, along with studs for Christmas this year. I have been out a few times this year and found them to perform as well as my felt soles. I was hesitant to do any serious wading the first trip but after a few outings I have complete confidence in the vibrum with studs. Just my opinion.

Rodney

[Steven]

With all due respect, Silver, and I think you know how much I respect your opinions from a recent exchange of PMs in which I expressed my regard for your contributions to this Bulletin Board ....

From a reliable dictionary - LYING

"A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly - even when not necessary.
Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie."

Personally, I have a great deal of difficulty placing any credibilty in someone who discounts and dismisses anyone who disagrees with his conclusions as ignorant, incompetent, and dishonest and labels them a LIAR, with an intent to deceive others.

Seems to me that Rosenbauer needs a new attitude or a new editor, or both.

In the meantime, I guess I'll have to rely on the opinions of others who are mature enough to respect honest disagreements and allow for differences in how people experience things. That would include you.

John

P.S. I do believe that in some situations, like tilted, very hard, and very smooth rock surfaces, studs can be dangerous, presenting a significant slipping hazard. I'm wondering if Rosenbauer included a warning about that hazard to go along with the decision they made to not sell rubber soled wading boots without studs ??

Unless somebody can tell me what advantage it is to Orvis to only sell rubber soles with studs, I think I'll go with Rosenbauer. He might be wrong, but what reason has he to lie?

[flybugpa]

Probably because in the lawsuit happy society we live in, its much easier to mass produce studded boots for a few cents more than to spend time in court and legal fees. Buy the studs. Or go to wal mart and find some vibram boots and use them for wading then sue wal mart when the inevitable happens.

[Quill gordon]

After reading a lot about felt vs. vibram boots I pulled the trigger yesterday and moved away from felt. I am going to test out my new boots tomorrow and see how they do. I am excited at the prospect of being able to hike in them I just hope "stick" as well as my felt boots. I am going to try them out first without studs/cleats, if I dislike the experience I will purchase some.

I encourage all of you to also carry a wading staff/stick no matter what type of footwear you use. After falling twice in the last two years, I feel a lot safer wading now. It also comes in handy when crossing streams. or walking thru the woods where you might encounter 'unfriendly critters'.
I also will be buying new vibram boots with cleats shortly.........