What's up with Fly Fishing Forums lately?

[JohnScott]

... and after reading all the replies on this thread, I'm not inclined to do so.

It's great that there is a forum for people who want to conduct themselves as described by both visitors to the site and two of the moderators there. ( Someplace for FAOL's rejects to go to. )

I just wonder how you could ever expect an HONEST answer to any question you or someone else might pose ?? And if you can't expect an honest answer, why would you go there except to play games with other people not really interested in fly fishing, but just jerking around people they want to jerk around.

It's really curious how RFA thinks ( if he does ) that starting this thread could be a benefit to either the website, or the magazine, and the owner of both. Seems kind of perverse, to me.

Also, it's not just members of this Bulletin Board who are witnesses to this discussion. This BB gets visited by a lot of people from around the world, and holding up The Drake to such an audience seems more like sabotage than it does promotion.

John

[Silver Creek]

Here is what Tom Bie actually said about about the Drake BB about 14 minutes in on his podcast:

http://www.itinerantangler.com/podcasts/podcasts/

"The web site is something totally different, that's all there is to it. I have people come up and tell me --- they'll start in on the web site and tell me that --- that it represents everything that fly fishing doesn't, and how can I let let these guys use that language and how this guy did this and posted this and use this word and --- I'm as upset as anyone about some of the things that take place there but --- . I don't know, I just look at it, some days it makes me laugh, some days it drives me crazy, you know the people that are on there, the stuff I let them get away with is certainly going to drive away some advertisers and things like that, but it certainly is not boring, you know, at least it is not that. There are an awful lot of guys on there that play that game on the message board, behind all that they are really nice guys, --- I feel like that is just the internet. I'm not going to be able to go in there - I don't want to go in there and control it. I like what it is, and I'm proud of what it has become, more days than not. I don't have the time or the resources to hire someone to rope these guys in --- I just let them run.

That sounds to me like a hands off attitude. I can only go by what he said on the record.

[Duffin Boy]

Another person here who can vouch that the Drake website and the magazine are two completely different animals.
I am a member of several Fishing websites although my participation at The Drake has dropped in the last two years or so.
The website is not for everyone but there are some pearls amongst the duff there from time to time.
I take what I find entertaining and leave what I find uninteresting (much what I do at any site).
It helps that I am not easily offended and I have a slightly warped sense of humor anyway.
The Drake Magazine again is not for everyone. It is family friendly but you won't find locations hotspotted or Lodges & Gear showcased.
It is more about the experience of Flyfishing. Beautiful photographs and short stories about the moments we experience out there.
Saying you won't read the magazine because you don't like the website is like saying you don't like music because you hate Rap.
I like to try things before I form my opinions. I am constantly surprised.
Each to their own.

DuFf

[DaveP63]

Actually Tom is pretty hands on, he's on there a ton and gives me freedom to bump/delete change anything on there I want. I think the Drakes's attitude to most is if you don't like it get out..that's basically it if you don't like it there's the door. We love to bash people on there and will continue, that's the Drake!

And that's why you guys are so FREAKIN' AWESOME! I haven't been there in over a year and won't go back anytime soon. If I need a dose of sophomoric crap, I'll hang around with some college buddies. I'll come here to get some fishing knowledge, thank you.

[Cold]

Saying you won't read the magazine because you don't like the website is like saying you don't like music because you hate Rap.

To be bluntly honest (but hopefully not offend), that analogy is completely incorrect.

It might be better to say that it'd be like not using Windows because you disagree with Microsoft's business practices, or choosing not to buy Maybelline makeup because they test on animals, or saying you don't like reubens because you hate corned beef. The two issues very clearly go hand in hand, and while it sounds like I might like said magazine, I will not become a subscriber because I'd like to avoid association with the website.

In short, I immerse myself in the world of fly fishing and tying to escape that sort of attitude, not to seek it. One of my favorite aspects of tying is that there is always someone who knows more than you, higher up on the ladder, reaching down to offer you a boost. An even more rewarding aspect is once you've been tying, even a short while, there are people just beginning that you can in turn pass on the help and add some of your own. In all of this, there should never be a need to kiss up to someone to get that help, or an instance where someone reaches for help in an open-minded manner and are met with derision. To me, that goes against the spirit of the sport. I do understand, though, that not everyone shares that view, which is why I dont resent such communities, though I dont really seek to become involved in one.

[joe cool]

I picked up a copy of Drake a while back and really liked it. It's a nice change of pace from the normal how to and destination oriented fly fishing magazines out there. I'd recommend everyone at least pick it up and browse through it if they see it in the local book store or on a news stand. It's not at all like the forum, it's quality writing and photography centered around flyfishing. It's not the magazine to go to learn any new flies or techniques or places to fish. It's centered around other people who are just addicted to the sport as me. You won't read anything terrible or see any dirty pictures in it and the writing is great. Choosing to ignore it because the owner also own's a website where he doesn't restrict discussions seems beyond ridiculous to me.

As for the forum, it's an entirely different beast than FAOL. My first look there didn't seem like my kinda place, but I kept looking around, checking out different threads and got used to it. I'm sure most here won't like it at all. I've always had the feeling that the average age of the regular FAOLers was close to double mine, and browsing the birthday calendar I'd say I was pretty close. Not that age is the deciding factor here, just that it plays a part I think. Here, it's all about being nice and well mannered and talking strictly fishing, mostly how to's and reports with some other educational stuff for the most part with occasional jaunts into food. Anything else gets closed up quick it seems. There, it's the opposite. Its still all about flyfishing, but in a different way. It's a place for fly fishing junkies to talk in general and know they are in the company of others like them and share stories that won't make sense to people out of the loop. Yes, there's plenty of "dirty"comments and pictures and flaming and things that some wont' want to read or see, but there's plenty of great stuff there too. I spent the last couple hours just reading through a 23 page thread on a musky swap they had and got tons of inspiration or all kinds of flies and such. I can't wait to get back to my vice next week so I can see what I can come up with. Anyone who's going after big fish would do well to just browse through the fly tying seciton there. Ignore all the words if your sensitive, but at least check out all the pictures to get some ideas. It really was great stuff. The whatcha been tying thread there is 56 pages long, and started back in Jan. of 09. Ours here die down in a couple weeks it seems. I'll continue to lurk there for a while till I feel up to par to join the conversations, but its definitely got my attention so RFA's post here has at least accomplished getting one new potential member.

I won't be leaving FAOL any time soon, it's a great resource and a good place to spend my time, but Drake has a lot to offer too if you can handle and enjoy all the smack talk that goes along with it. So thanks RFA for the heads up. To answer your question though, it really is about the target audience of the site. If you haven't noticed already, the group here at FAOL and the group on Drake are just about polar opposites. Each seem to work exceedingly well together. The real success is continuing to find new members within the target audience. I doubt you'll get many converts from somewhere like this though.


And to JohnScott, my impression so far is that it's not a place for beginners in the sport at all, so fishing questions about gear or knots or fly choice won't get answered. But, the musky swap thread I mentioned was extremely educational. It was a meeting of the minds in a way, a bunch of people from around the country/world, adding to the pot and trying to help each other and build off eac hothers ideas to create some awesome flies and styles. If you need to have a free forum and let the contributers to that thread post whatever they want in others, so be it, as long as it gets them together. Just my view, but that's the value of their forum It draw's in people that wouldn't be welcome on other forums like this one and leads to some really cool ideas.


I will say I am a little disappointed in the labeling of another forum as rejects, and of all the people posting that haven't checked it out for themselves, and by check it out I mean actually spend a good 20 minutes minimum looking around at what's there, not leave at the first sign of a dirty word or picture. I totally recognize many see no reason to put up with that kind of behavior to get their fly fishing info, but you're still missing out on some new, I'd say revolutionary stuff. For as kind and open and welcoming as everyone here usually is, I was stunned at the almost stuck up attitude these kind of comments suggest. Just wanted to offer a different perspective since most of the posts here seem to be neutral at best. I like it, I'll visit it and learn as much as I can and get some different entertainment in the process. Maybe I'll join in the future, probably in the winter when I have more time on here and less time on the computer. I'll still come here when I have technical questions, even if they don't always get answered. And I'll go there for different reasons, mainly entertainment and to see some different perspectives on the sport and some really creative tying.

This got a lot longer than I expected. I figured I'd end up writing a line or two and got carried away. Hopefully I've at least offered a different perspective and given some folks something to think about, and if not, oh well, I felt it needed said.

[namekagon]

I really think you should take the plunge as you obviously have what it takes to be a Draker.
If I may, I'd suggest breaking the ice by posting a thread on Drake entitled 'Why I Like FAOL Better'.

[fly-chucker]

I to regularly go to the Drake Forum, and agree wholeheartedly with joe cool. I'd say that the age group there is a lot closer to mine than here on FAOL. Does that mean I'm going to abandon this site for that one? No, they both have much to offer. Lots of junk going on over on the Drake, but this site can get testy on occasion, we just choose not to drop the f-bomb here on FAOL.

As far as respect goes, the previous post would fit in nicely on the Drake if you spiced it up a bit with a few choice words.

Kevin

[Marco]

Tell me what web sites you frequent and I'll tell you who you are. Just sayin.............

Mark

[JohnScott]

..... about FAOL rejects, wasn't taken as tongue in cheek by everyone. Thanks for pointing that out, joe cool.

To anyone who was offended by that comment, I do apologize.

Also, joe did an excellent job of giving a different perspective on The Drake, both the website and the magazine. I have heard some very good things about the magazine, but haven't picked it up just because I'm not much of a magazine person. I wouldn't not read it because of impressions about the website - each should stand on their own, to my way of thinking.

As to the website, I'm still not inclined to visit it because of how it is characterized not by persons visiting it briefly and casually, but by the way it is characterized by the moderators. Age may well be a factor, in my case at least, and I have no problem admitting that or seeing that as a factor for a lot of people. My 29 year professional career involved a very competitive, adversarial, combatative element on a continuing basis. "Not nice" was the norm. Had enough of it. Perhaps at an earlier time in my life I would have been a Drake advocate answering a thread posted on that site about why someone liked FAOL better. Something about all you old fogies ..... ( tongue in cheek, of course ).

John