Dry Fly Hackle

[fly-chucker]

I've been wondering about dry fly hackle.

I'm sure that hackle quality has improved considerebly over the past 10 years, my question; how does a bronze grade saddle today compare to saddles from 10 years ago? Would it have been a gold back then? How high has the bar been raised?

I hardly ever tie dry flies so I really have no clue.

Kevin

[Buddy Sanders]

F-C,

I'm not sure that there has been that much of a change in the last ten years in feather quality.

I have several books from the 70s and early 80s where the authors are lamenting the lack of good dry fly hackle.

Seems that the domestic breeders and properly applied genetic techniques have solved that problem for good, as the feathers we have today are far superior in many ways to what has ever been available.

The way that grading scales like Gold/#1, Silver/#2, Bronze...etc.. was explained to me had nothing to do with feather quality, but with feather count. A gold/#1 cape will have more feathers in more sizes than a same colored cape from the same breeder. In many ways, this makes the higher grade capes the best value, as you get more feathers per dollar spent with them.

Whether or not the feather numbers have escalated per cape/grade over the last few years I don't know. I do know that I have three five year old gold capes that will provide all the dry fly hackle feathers I'll liklely need in this life.

Buddy

[WarrenP]

This is a great question for Denny at Conranch (sponsor here). I feel he will be very honest with you and be straight forward. His products are, in my opinion, top of the line and he knows his "feathers"! You could wait for him to answer here or, I would send him a PM.

[Clay]

I think that you will find this link interesting: http://www.whitingfarms.com/articles/grading.html

Here is an hour and a half discussion by Thomas Whiting on hackle, you can download it to your Ipod or listen to it on your computer speakers. You don't have to listen to the whole thing at one time, but it is worth the investment in time: http://www.askaboutflyfishing.com/sp...mas/thomas.cfm

[hap]

The bar has been raised a great deal, but not universally across all colors... A top end grizzly of today is superior to just about any other color and probably a couple grades on some colors with the company that grades with gold, silver and bronze.

I am a little more demanding than Buddy I guess my hackle tubs are huge and I have three of them, all full... Dyed, natural, and hen. I do use them as photo backgrounds with a lot of the studio stuff I do... and they are perfect for that if you have the EXACT right color. But all get used for flies.

[narcodog]

Whiting introduced the Olympic grading system as a marketing strategy. As was said it has to do with the amount of usable feathers on the hide. Different breeders go for somewhat different effects. Whiting goes fro long thin stems. Collins goes for variegated thin stemmed hackle. The Hebert line varies from Whitings main line. IMO you cannot always get the look you are looking for from breeder. That is one of Whiting philosophy's.

I can tell you that there has been changes in the breeding over the last ten years. That is one reason you can not find good spade hackles any longer as they have been bred out.

I have stuff from the '70's through today and one can really see the difference.

[Wes]

i have both hoffman (original henry hoffman) and whiting's "hoffman". in the beginning whiting's "hoffman" was at least equal to original hoffman but as things progressed and whiting became more and more commercial it seems the qualith has degraded a bit. but as far as improving in the past 10 years i'd say some have and are continuing to improve and some are about the same.

[NJTroutbum]

Has it gotten better? Certainly yes, overall. Some lines have improved greatly....others have gotten worse. But overall the quality of hackle is greatly improved IMO.

I know there is always alot of talk about "who is the best". However, I would caution pidgeon-holing yourself into one breeder. I am partial to the older Hoffmann hackles, and grab them up whenever I can find them. But I search through all of them selectively. I've found Heber, Conranch, Collins, Whiting & Metz hackles....all equal in quality & perfect for the intended application. Some you need to be more selective than others....but overall, there is some excellent hackle to be had these days.

[Denny]

This is a very controversial subject. I feel all breeders today are producing much better hackle than we were 10 years ago. In fact I find we are improving dry quality each year. Our barbs are actually getting a bit stiffer and more uniform each year. Our barb count is getting a bit higher each breeding season. When I took our flock over 14 years ago, 80 barbs per inch was about our average across the color families. Today our black family (Natural Black, Gold badger & Silver Badger are tops with the average over 93 barbs par inch and extremely stiff, some even higher. This is a bit higher than the Grizzly family today Hap.
I have improved the stem quality over what it was when I obtained the flock.
We have worked hard to increase the skeleton size on all families which gives us a larger skin and that relates to a higher hackle count.
The feed I have set up for my flock is specially blended, pointing at feather production, not meat & eggs. This is my own formula and I am sure other breeders do the same.
Different breeders grade differently. We all agree that it is in the number of flies that could be expected to be tied from each cape or saddle that if all else is equal, will place the grade, either Olympic medal, or old fashioned grade 1 to 3.
It used to be the best dry fly quality was graded highest and on down the line. All grades are better dry fly quality today than yesterday for all breeders.
We (Conranch) produce no low grade hackle in any grade. I find a grade #3 cape in our hackle is as good dry fly quality as a grade #1. Just because you choose to buy a top grade cape does not mean that it will be a better dry fly quality than if you had purchased a grade 3.
We keep no large inventory so our hackle is all fresh. Hackle does tend to deteriate over time especially if it is laid out in direct sunlight or displayed in a shop, perhaps some sunlight at different times of the day. This is the reason most fly shops tend to display hackle away from windows. It all needs to be protected from infestation of bugs and pets.
One of my most prized pieces of hackle is a very old saddle, that has the grade#1 stenciled on the back of the piece of felt stiched to the back many years ago when it was top of the line. I get it out once in a while to look at it. Sadly today it would not even make a grade #3. Today I would reject it to be burned as not acceptable. As a collectors item it is priceless to me today. It was the best a tier could buy many years ago.

There is way more to grading than I am willing to take time to relate here.
My suggestion to all tiers is to obtain which ever "Brand" you feel is best for your tying and fishing.
For old hackle I suggest caution in buying. There is a lot of Old, poor quality dry fly hackle from gone out of business sales. Brokers trying to make a buck from tiers. If you buy some and like it, consider yourself very lucky. Most new hackle will give you many hours of pleasure in your tying and fishing.
Of course everyone that ties has an opinion on Hackle and grading. Each is entitled to that opinion and I would be the last one to try and change your mind.
I suggest a tier to find a hackle supplier that treats you with good customer service, is honest with you and provides you with hackle you enjoy tying with. If you find you are having problems tying with a particular piece of hackle you may just have a poor piece. Above all else, tying is not as difficult as some would try and lead you to believe. Enjoy tying, keep it fun.
I enjoy tying and fishing and I do hope all of you do also.
Denny, Owner of Conranch Hackle
Sponsor here on FAOL for about 10 years.

[mickporter]

I think the bar has been raised. I remember years and years ago when I began to tie, hackles were small and good recognised colours were like gold dust. I don't have experience with Conranch or most other breeders, but I remember Metz and hoffmans being ground breakers of that day. It was stiffness in those days that a good dry fly tyer desired. Both these brands had beautiful long tapered feathers.

Since those days things have moved on so much. Whitings bought or took over Hoffman's and became the brand of choice over Metz for most people. Those long slender feathers with hardly a taper meaning you can tie several flies from one feather.

I think Whitings have also moved on too. I remember controversy about the stiffness of the stems. Some tiers thought Whiting hackles to have too stiff a centre stem. But not now. They tie as easily as certainly anything else I have ever found. Colours which at one time were collectors items are now available regularly. I mostly have whitings bronze capes and saddles but also a few silver. I have never seen a gold or better. I guess that one day Platinum may become the norm! I can't wait!

So I think yes the bar has been raised and no doubt its a continuous process. Soon I will buy some of the conranch capes. They appear very popular amongst you guys............