Taper Patents?

[Bass_Bug]

I can't imagine that access to tapers will make any difference in the quality of rods being produced in Asia. Even if they do use well established tapers, the people making the blanks have no idea what they're supposed to feel like when they're finished. Not to mention they probably won't be tempering the cane very well (if at all), they won't take care to avoid worm holes/grey nodes/weak cane, won't see a problem with glue lines/gaps, probably won't use any sort of node staggering, etc...

That's a big assumption. The average fly angler that has never held a bamboo fly rod could probably not tell the difference of where the blank came from. Not saying there wont be visible differences in quality and appearance, just saying they look pretty darn close to the untrained eye. If they have no idea what they are doing, why are they made to at least look like a $1000 domestic blank?

What is it that's stopping them right now from making the same quality of rod that any competent U.S./European/Australian maker is currently producing? They've got acess to the exact same materials, there are plenty of books on the subject (plus the internet sites), and there are a number of tool/equipment suppliers. So, what is it?

What's stopping them is machine-made/mass-production processes, profit margin and the fact that the workers are just factory employees and not owner-operator craftsman.

[Photojoe4]

Who's charging $1000 for a blank? Most every well established rodmaker that I know charges around $3-600 for a ferruled 2/2 blank.

As for not having machine-made/mass-production processes, I can think of a couple dozen rodmakers who are only using a planing form/block plane and somehow manage to produce a quality product. The problem with the workers isn't so much that they aren't owner/operators, but more that they don't have any understanding of how/why these products are being used.

I think you hit on the real sticking point: profit margin. When you figure in the cost of the materials and the labor involved (even WITH machine-made blanks), there isn't any real way to make a significant amount of profit on them. Not unless your goal is produce them as fast as possible with little or no care given to the quality of the end product.

[hardhat]

China labor is cheap. Raw materials are cheap. Businesses not taxed to death like here in the US. In many cases the government subsidize manufacturing. The China facility will be looking at the world market not just the USA. And, they will make what is asked for and what is salable. Look around you and notice all kinds of name brand products now made in China.
PS they are not just making machine made blanks

[Photojoe4]

China labor is cheap.

Yes, it certainly is. The workers are paid a criminally low wage.

Raw materials are cheap.

In the overall cost of the rod, probably. You've got about $40 for the bamboo($20 x 2 culms), $45 for the ferrules, and maybe a little factored in for the glue.

Businesses not taxed to death like here in the US. In many cases the government subsidize manufacturing.

No arguement there. Small businesses especially have been pretty heavily hit here in the U.S. Of course, having the government subsidize manufacturing also means they have a say in what gets manufactured and how.

The China facility will be looking at the world market not just the USA.

I can't think of any U.S. rodmaker that woudn't be happy to sell a rod/blank overseas.

And, they will make what is asked for and what is salable.

And, as was pointed out, they will make ONLY what is asked for.

Look around you and notice all kinds of name brand products now made in China.

Like what? I can't think of any who's product has remained consistently good since they've sent their operations over there.

PS they are not just making machine made blanks

I don't see why that should matter as long as the quality is the same.

[SteveP]

In my minds eye this is the way I see it.........

Do you want an artisan to build a high quality product that he is willing to stand behind and attest to it's quality and workmanship??? Or are you willing to settle for something of ok quality and workmanship that if it should happen to delaminate or something other to go wrong with the workmanship in the next few years you're just stuck with it and there you go. It's a personal choice and however you look at it tthere are pros and cons........

I'm not defending one or the other and I loook at it like would I rather have THE Mona Lisa or a fair replica of it painted by some unknown artist that will never be worth more than the canvas it's painted on.

Steve

[hardhat]

Yup that is the biggest difference-"heirloom" quality or just having a bamboo rod. As in past history and now there has always been a variance of quality in the bamboo rods. Sorry Photojoe4 but you must be living in a cave if you think that quality products are not coming out of China.

[Photojoe4]

Yup that is the biggest difference-"heirloom" quality or just having a bamboo rod. As in past history and now there has always been a variance of quality in the bamboo rods. Sorry Photojoe4 but you must be living in a cave if you think that quality products are not coming out of China.

Well, so much for a civilized debate. Best of luck in your mad dash to the bottom. I'll just head back to my cave....

[hardhat]

I deal with the competition of China and it's manufacturing on a daily basis. One should not underestimate their resources or resourcefulness. The importation of goods from China will have an affect on bamboo rods just as it does on graphite rods and almost all manufactured products. I do care about the people involved. My desire was to possibly make people aware that this should not be ignored as it may affect your business plans and decisions. I do not desire to see the balance at the bottom of peoples check books being negatively affected. Over the past few years I have seen friends and acquaintences negatively affected by the China syndrome. I also know that just talking bad about the China products will not prepare businesses for the possible adjustments they may need.
Looking at the big picture companies like Sony, Intel, HP, Boeing, Mitsubishi, Samsung, GE, and many many many more have products made in China. Most all of us use products made there on a daily basis So I am sorry to take this discusion out of just the realm of bamboo rods. As my experience shows that good preparation, a good plan, and having some knowledge of your competitor helps. And I fight this fight on a daily basis. Winners have a plan, loosers have excuses.
Sorry Photojoe4, I should not have called your housing situation as living in a cave.

[LadyFisher]

There are no patents on tapers, and it is common among cane rod builders to share tapers, or to actually take a series of measurements like every two inches along the length of the rod. There is an index of those I recall at the BB for cane rodmakers, sorry I can't remember the url, I'm sure someone can add it. As far as pricing is concerned, rod making as an art falls into any art pricing. An item, rod, painting etc is worth exactly what you can get for it. When you put cane rod building into a manufacturing business (as it once was in this country) you may indeed have lovely rods, but no longer 'art', as in the Art of Rod Building.

[black_co]

Ladyfisher was referring to this web address: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html, then just click on the tapers link on the left side of the page.

Another taper site is: http://www.hexrod.net/Tapers/index.html