Who knows about tungsten?

[Buddy Sanders]

So, after much debate, some fly tyers decide to stop using lead. I probably won't, but it brings up a question I've been kicking around for a while.

What can us 'do it yourselfers' do with tungsten? It's the obviouous best substitute, as it's heavier than lead. But is it workable for the home hobbiest? I don't want to have to buy it already made into dumbbells and cones if I can do it myself, it's too pricey.

Can I get it in a bendable form of small wire? How maleable can it be made? Can it be cut with my wire cutters?

Can it be melted/poured like lead, maybe with more heat, but can it be done without dangerous fumes or severe fire risks?

Does it have to be machined into shapes? If so, in what forms can it bought in bulk? Any special health risks with the particulates?

I'd enjoy playing with it, but I'm not up on metallurgy where tungsten is concerned.

With all the knowledge here, someone should be able to shed some light on this.

Buddy

[kglissmeyer]

Buddy, good question. I have found a reasonable solution that circumvents the use of tungsten. I call it 'Poor Man's Tungsten' and use non-lead wire tucked under whatever bead you might be using for the particular fly you're tying.
Here is the link to a recent Fly of the Week I presented that shows how simple it is to do this without the added expense of using tungsten beads:

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/fotw...tw20091228.php

As for other tungsten products such as wire, etc. I haven't found nor heard of any such products. If anyone does know of this, let us all know.

Thanks for binging this up, Buddy.

Kelly.

[iaflyfisher]

Feather-Craft has a tungsten impregnated stretch lace:

"TUNGSTEN STRETCH LACE Solid round stretch material that's been impregnated with tungsten powder giving it serious weight. Use it for bodies or ribbing. .025" dia (un-stretched). Color is Iron-Grey"


You can also purchase powdered tungsten from golf club shops and mix it with epoxy.

[Cold]

Tungsten has a higher melting point than nearly any other common metal (several thousand degrees hotter than iron iirc), making casting out of the question.

Most tungsten products aremanufactured through a process of powder metallurgy, where a metallic tungsten powder is heated and compressed until the grains of powder fuse, but it never truly melts. It could be done, but not in any kind of a metal vessel or using any metal components in the process (which would be very expensive).

I'm not familiar with how they make the tungsten wire for light bulb filaments, but considering the properties of tungsten, i'd have to suspect that the wire is fairly brittle.

Probably the most useful form of tungsten for the fly fisherman, aside from beads, cones, and eyes, would be the sink putty that is sold in many fly shops, a tungsten powder in a malleable polymer medium. Other than that, the equipment necessary to work the stuff makes any products made with it fairly pricey.

[Buddy Sanders]

Can it be worked on a lathe with common metal working tools?

I.e; could I chuck a piece of tungsen rod into a lathe and turn dumbbell eyes or cones?

If so, does anyone have a source for just tungsten rod stock or bars and how much does it cost?

The powder has some applications. I'd imagine you could suspend it in lots of epoxies or finishes.

They are making the dumbbells and cones, plus all kinds of things for the bass fishing market now. Anyone know how?

Buddy

[Cold]

I'm not really sure about it's workability (I took a class where we covered alot of this, but that was a while back), but I think it's quite hard. You'd not be able to use any standard metal, but rather you'd need some ceramics...carbide may do the trick, not sure. In fact, most of the metal that would be obtainable would probably be an alloy of some sort (the "tungsten beads" used are actually probably an alloy as well, and not elemental tungsten).

You're not going to find round stock tungsten, I dont think. As I said, its typically not melted down and worked effectively as a liquid, making extrusion impractical to produce as a finished product to sell as-is. Even at that, I'd have to venture a guess that buying elemental tungsten in quantity would be prohibitively expensive.

I'll disclaimer all of this by saying I'm no metallurgical professional, just someone who's done a little learning about the subject.

[ducksterman]

Tungsten pellets used in shotgun shells may be a relatively inexpensive source of round beads of tungsten alloy...don't really know though nor do I know how you would use them.

[Lake Erie High Ball]

Hey Buddy,

I really enjoyed / enjoying this thread, almost to the point to take some classes. Seriously.

Dose anyone know the right answer?

Cold, I thought I was on to something there. I am not discouraged though still reading. Fascinating stuff, but we still cant put aluminum in the microwave.

[Cold]

Cold, I thought I was on to something there. I am not discouraged though still reading. Fascinating stuff, but we still cant put aluminum in the microwave.

I'm just glad people are really and actually thinking about it. The more people think for themselves, and don't just accept everything we hear, the better off we'll all be.

For my part, just as important as knowing the end result, is knowing the 'why'.

[Buddy Sanders]

Talked for while with an old friend last night.

He's a metals guy.

He has some tungsten.

Bottom line, it's way too hard and too expensive for the hobbiest to work with in it's solid form. Buying cones and beads ready made is cheaper, much cheaper. Even the never give up do it yourselfers like me would be better served working on sourcing ready made products that making them yourself.

The only place where he saw possibilities for those of us with the make it ourselves genes was in the area of combining tungsten powders into various epoxies and compounds. Apparently this is being done more and more.

Tungsten powder is still prettty pricey, though. It does tend to mix and suspend well in other materials. He felt that there could be a hot glue mix possible, which I'm keeping an eye out for. That would work very nicely in several different applications.

If any of this goes anywhere, I'll post it here. If any of you run accross tungsten powder at any kind of price, please let me know. I'm looking for some kind of baseline on it.

Thanks,

Buddy