Fly or fish?
I'm mostly a saltwater fly angler. I do fish Florida's fresh waters from time to time. My question is: Is the fly pattern the most important part of the equation? Or is a hungry fish the most important factor?
I know that fly patterns are a big deal on trout streams where you must match the hatch, but I believe here and in other venues the equation most likely is this:
Hungry fish, plus good cast = hookup.
What do you think?
Steve
I fish mainly for steelhead and amoungst steelheaders most will say presentation is more important than the fly. For the most part steelhead don't feed once they re-enter fresh water so hungry fish do not enter into the equation. However the perfect presentation of a smallish streamer likely will not get you a strike from a large winter steelhead where as a much larger string leech might. So fly selection does have a role.
"The reason you have a good vision is you're standing on the shoulders of giants." ~ Andy Batcho
I just fish anywhere there is water and I agree with you. Although I might change the equation just a little.
Hungry fish, plus good presentation = hookup.
Let No One Walk Alone
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I mostly fish the salt too and I find that sometimes both are the case.
I have come across many times where I have had inspections of my offering and had it refused by a bass that I could see was actively feeding even after I dropped my fly or lure on their face. Sometimes I was was able to get a strike after changing patterns and sometimes not. Other times it didn't matter what I threw at them and I was able to hook up.
Many times I have observed that you get one shot, even in salt water. If a fish refuses you first pass chances are you aren't going to get another one.
Its remarkable how all fish are similar in their behaviors no matter where they are from or what they are.
Your hooks sharp????
Hungry fish + good cast/presentation + fly reflective of common food = Fish On!
Kelly.
Tight Lines,
Kelly.
"There will be days when the fishing is better than one's most optimistic forecast, others when it is far worse. Either is a gain over just staying home."
Roderick Haig-Brown, "Fisherman's Spring"
I firmly believe fish are stupid. I also believe that if you show them a fly that looks sort of like food they are thinking about, they will eat it. So it should even out.
As for Kerry's thought on presentation being the key, I would offer a counter experience. Not that I disagree with him, but the river gods have their own senses of humor. I once hooked (and subsequently landed) a steelhead while standing in the river, rod tucked under my arm pointed behind me and drowned dry fly swinging below me in the shallows, while listening to a man tell me how much trouble he was having getting a grab from a steelhead. I have yet to perfect that presentation, but it has happened to me on several occasions (with trout) since.
Can't speak to your question for species other than trout or for conditions other than moving water, but there are lots of kinds of trout, they act differently in different places, and there are few places where you MUST match the hatch, along with a lot of places where that is a great idea.Originally Posted by SteveGibson
I think for trout generally, the equation starts with the notion that all trout are born with the self image of a 23" brown trout. Why else would a 3" cutthroat attack a size 10 extended body golden stone or hopper with the expectation of eating it ?? Why else would a 4" brookie attack a 2" baitfish style streamer with dinner on its mind ??
Beyond that, it strikes me that if it looks like food, if it acts like food, and if it is slower ( and somewhat smaller ) than a trout, a trout will try to eat it.
Casting and presentation have something to do with it. BUT lots of times just letting a dry fly swing in the current downstream of your position will catch a fishy ( trout ).
I think some folks like to surround trout with a lot of hype and mystery. Allan Woolley, creator of the Chernobyl Ant, which is a big, bulky, black foam ant with rubber legs and a white indicator post, once told me that the surest way to catch big trout on Idaho's famed Silver Creek is to wait until the hatch has dwindled and the highly sophisticated "match the hatch" crowd has dispersed, and then plop down a Chernobyl Ant. ( Here's hoping neither Allen nor I get scalped over that suggestion. )
My own formula, for trout in moving water, is : timing + tackle + technique = a good time.
John
The fish are always right.
When some species, blue fish for example, go on a bite you can drag about anything and get a fish. It is unbelievable at times. Then they're gone and that is the end of it. They follow the bait. However, sometimes salt water fish want a specific size more than exact pattern. If they are feeding on 3" bait, that's what they want. In the salt the fish are pretty much moving all the time. You can locate trout, see them and if you don't spook them they will stay pretty close for a long time allowing you some time to get everything right. I think for a rule they are more selective than warm water or salt water fish, although I don't have enough experience with trout at this point to have an opinion that is worth much. (by next winter I should be a little more knowledgable)
The appropriate fly, presented and fished correctly should cover it.
Bob
When you can arrange your affairs to go fishing, forget all the signs, homilies, advice and folklore. JUST GO.
If you really think about it, all of the answers point out the fact that fish are opportunistic feeders. Even that very "selective" trout is taking advantage of that particular food item that is present in greatest abundance at the time. (Taking advantafge of the opportunity!) This minimizes the amount of energy expended. Their energy expense must be less than the return for them to survive. Some years ago I had the privelege to fish the salmon fly hatch on the Deschutes in Oregon. There was also a caddis fly hatch at teh same time. You could catch the "red sides" on a 2 1/2 inch Sofa Pillow or a #16 Elk Hair Caddis. It was a "name your poison" day.
Also, a fish is a fish is a fish, regardless of where it lives. 25 years ago I was responsible for a redfish (red drum) tagging project where we used conventional tackle to catch the fish. We used a lead-head jig with plasctic shrimptails of various colors. Some days they would hit anything you threw at them, including the bare hook and lead head only (no tail), other days they could be very color specific in their "taste". One never knew what to expect from them. (We caught, tagged and released some 4,000 redfish in a three year study period.)
I have observed bluegills being very selective on occassion, especially when the large sulfur mayfly is emerging. The bluegill schooled and hung at a very specific depth and fed voraciously on the nymphs as they were migrating to the surface.
Classic examples of saltwater fish feeding selectively is when stripers or bluefish concemtrate on a school of bait fish. However, their frenzy is so great that you can toss about anything in among them and get a hookup. The school as a whole was feeding selectively on the baitfish, but that individual you caught on a squid patter was feeding opportunistically.
(FIW, I am a retired marine fisheries biologist.)
Cheers,
Frank
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