U-40 Quik Bond

[Bass_Bug]

Sully, I'm not going to argue that graphite arbors are not a cleaner method, and I'm certainly no expert, I'm only working on my 5th rod (all for myself) and I actually did pick up arbors for it. My first rod only needed a few wraps of tape, the second I ordered arbors for it, but I had the size wrong and ended up using tape and it worked fine, so the rest I just used tape.

As far as sliding, I suppose if you built up the entire 4 inches or so of the blank under the seat you would have a point, but using 1/4" tape I only wrapped 2 places on the blank and let the epoxy fill in between. This is the method I saw in several books. No different then using two 1/2" graphite arbors under a 4" reel seat. No matter what the tape does, there is epoxy on both sides of tape and it's solid from the blank to the inner edge of the seat. The seat is not going anywhere.

I've seen full length arbors, but gluing the arbor to the rod, then the rod to the arbors adds a weak spot if you ask me, and a damping spot in the arbor. That said I feel that having a large section of the blank glued directly to the seat (between the arbors), is much stronger joint, and better vibe transmission.

I imagine graphite might transmit vibrations from the rod a little better than tape, but not as well as through the solid epoxy, being that epoxy is much denser and has more mass. But objectively, two 1/2" wide graphite arbors -vs- two 1/2" wide masking tape arbors and both using the same amount epoxy, I serious doubt there would be any noticeable difference is feeling the any vibrations form the line. What you feel is coming through the solid epoxy.

[Sully]

Sully, I'm not going to argue that graphite arbors are not a cleaner method, and I'm certainly no expert, I'm only working on my 5th rod (all for myself) and I actually did pick up arbors for it. My first rod only needed a few wraps of tape, the second I ordered arbors for it, but I had the size wrong and ended up using tape and it worked fine, so the rest I just used tape.

As far as sliding, I suppose if you built up the entire 4 inches or so of the blank under the seat you would have a point, but using 1/4" tape I only wrapped 2 places on the blank and let the epoxy fill in between. This is the method I saw in several books. No different then using two 1/2" graphite arbors under a 4" reel seat. No matter what the tape does, there is epoxy on both sides of tape and it's solid from the blank to the inner edge of the seat. The seat is not going anywhere.


, and a damping spot in the arbor. That said I feel that having a large section of the blank glued directly to the seat (between the arbors), is much stronger joint, and better vibe transmission.

I imagine graphite might transmit vibrations from the rod a little better than tape, but not as well as through the solid epoxy, being that epoxy is much denser and has more mass. But objectively, two 1/2" wide graphite arbors -vs- two 1/2" wide masking tape arbors and both using the same amount epoxy, I serious doubt there would be any noticeable difference is feeling the any vibrations form the line. What you feel is coming through the solid epoxy.

No need to even disagree on the matter. You saw a previous poster spell it out free and clear....OLD LINE THINKING..

If you used two 1/4" wide tape arbors and the rest of the cavity was filled with glue...I dont know what to tell you..other than you would never sell me a rod construct that shabbily!

Any graphite arbor I ever used was a full inch long...and I used THREE under a 4 inch reel seat...that dont leave much space between but you can ignore that area its the SMALL GAP between the arbor and the insert thats holding the reelseat...NOT some huge canyon filled to the brim with epoxy.

"I've seen full length arbors, but gluing the arbor to the rod, then the rod to the arbors adds a weak spot if you ask me" Well..if properly fitted ( and that means relatively tightly for minimum glue gap) it doesnt! But if you think it does...what do you think masking tape ( and evidently NARROW bands of masking tape) do then?

A glue joint should be AS THIN as possible so that shear stresses cant work on it

[herefishy]

I look all around so I can find a seat that will fit the blank I am using with minimum space for "slop" to fill with either arbor or tape. Seldom have to add either, other than just a little tape.

[kbproctor]

Just to add fuel to the fire, what about the idea that you can drill and tap epoxy? Paste epoxies are made to fill gaps and are easy to work with.

There are ways to make that big ol' clump of epoxy between the tape arbors stronger that are in widespread use and it would make an essentially full length arbor. Mix a long set epoxy and once it is mixed, mix in fibers from shredded fiberglass mat. Pack that in your space between the tape arbors.

Another option would be to use fiberglass cloth soaked in mixed resin and wrap it on the blank forming a full length arbor. You need to take into account the blank taper, though.

Sully's use of thread or string would work, quite well, too. However, all of these methods are messy as all get out if you do them right to get the material thoroughly soaked in mixed resin, and for them to work, the material MUST be soaked all the way through with resin.

The graphite arbors are resin mixed with graphite fibers. Tough stuff.

Since we are not towing trucks with these rods, or trying to bust rocks, or give our fishing partner blunt force trauma with the butt of our fishing rod, I believe that the properly fitted pair of graphite arbors, epoxied in place is as strong as is needed. You are going to break the rod itself long before the grip is going to be knocked loose. How many generations that takes depends on how careful you are. With reasonable care, it should last for a long, long time.

[Bass_Bug]

No need to even disagree on the matter. You saw a previous poster spell it out free and clear....OLD LINE THINKING..

If you used two 1/4" wide tape arbors and the rest of the cavity was filled with glue...I dont know what to tell you..other than you would never sell me a rod construct that shabbily!

Any graphite arbor I ever used was a full inch long...and I used THREE under a 4 inch reel seat...that dont leave much space between but you can ignore that area its the SMALL GAP between the arbor and the insert thats holding the reelseat...NOT some huge canyon filled to the brim with epoxy.

"I've seen full length arbors, but gluing the arbor to the rod, then the rod to the arbors adds a weak spot if you ask me" Well..if properly fitted ( and that means relatively tightly for minimum glue gap) it doesnt! But if you think it does...what do you think masking tape ( and evidently NARROW bands of masking tape) do then?

A glue joint should be AS THIN as possible so that shear stresses cant work on it

Sully, Sorry if I stuck a nerve. Was merely stating the tape arbors are just as viable as graphite to the home builder. But I guess I assumed the home builder part.

Like I said, I build them for me and not to sell, and they work just fine. Never said or implied it the was the only way or the right or wrong way, just the way I've done it.

Using tape arbors may be 'old school' but thats whats common in many published books on the subject. If you have a book published on the subject, please post the book info and I'll gladly consider your advise as a credible source of rod building information, otherwise, your opinion is no better or worse than anyones else's. Just another opinion. If you want to get all bent out of shape and call my work, (work that you have never seen by the way) shabby, I guess thats your prerogative and shows your narrow mindedness. However with an attitude like that you'd never sell ME one of your rods.

[TampaJim]

A glue joint should be AS THIN as possible so that shear stresses cant work on it

I have had the distinct pleasure of knowing Ralph O'Quinn (the developer/owner of Trondak/U40 products - LS Supreme, Rod Bond, Ferrule Lube, etc.) for quite some time. His background is simple ... aerospace adhesives engineer for Boeing.

Ralph is well into his 80's at this point and he was the primary developer for many of the adhesives in use in aviation today. I figure if his adhesive products hold together a 747 jumbo jet at 35,000 feet moving at 567mph ... his knowledge far surpasses mine.

During almost every presentation he gives, he will tell folks one thing AT LEAST several times ... "the thinnest glue line, is the strongest glue line - glue doesn't work sticking to itself".

The best arboring system is one with MINIMAL space for adhesives. Polyurethane arbors and graphite foam arbors are many times stronger than needed.

While I don't pretend to know everything, I am 100% positive that masking tape is the last thing that I would use, or recommend to be used, to secure a reel seat.

Jim -

[Buddy Sanders]

Just one more thing...

Epoxy is heavy.

You really don't want to (nor do you need to) 'fill' in the voids between the arbors with epoxy.

You glue the arbors to the rod blank...you glue the reel seat to the arbors...you have two very strong epoxy joints involved that willhold up very well to the actual 'stress' of normal use.

All that 'fill in' epoxy does is add weight, not 'strength'.

Masking tape is used to hold thing temporarily. Using it as an 'arbor' for a fishing rod is not something I'd consider..especially on a rod that I'm going to spend hours of my time on.

If the inner diameter of the reel seat is too large to fill with a few wraps of thread or string, the foam arbors are the next best method. Foam arbors are stronger, lighter, and simple to use.

I'll skip tape of any kind and spend the couple of bucks to do it correctly.

If the money is an issue, you can make reasonable arbors with cork, wood, or even scrap plastic (given you have the tooling to do this).

Buddy

[Sully]

Sully, Sorry if I stuck a nerve. Was merely stating the tape arbors are just as viable as graphite to the home builder. But I guess I assumed the home builder part.

Like I said, I build them for me and not to sell, and they work just fine. Never said or implied it the was the only way or the right or wrong way, just the way I've done it.

Using tape arbors may be 'old school' but thats whats common in many published books on the subject. If you have a book published on the subject, please post the book info and I'll gladly consider your advise as a credible source of rod building information, otherwise, your opinion is no better or worse than anyones else's. Just another opinion. If you want to get all bent out of shape and call my work, (work that you have never seen by the way) shabby, I guess thats your prerogative and shows your narrow mindedness. However with an attitude like that you'd never sell ME one of your rods.

The problem is that they ARENT "just as good"...so why spend the time and money to build anything..even a birdhouse...if you dont attempt to do your very best on it???

What was the DATE on the last hardbacked book about rod building you read or even saw? Bet it wasnt 200x was it?
1) I never attempted to SELL my flyrods ( which is all I ever had a desired to build) I built rods as a HOBBY..thusly as with most hobbys I could afford to do my utmost in making it...not only in construction labor but in materials.
2) One doesnt have to visually see anothers rods if the second person has explained HOW he constructed them...to know the person isnt using the BEST in techniques and or materials.

You have no need whatsoever to belive what I may say...just read OTHERS postings on the same subject

[Sully]

If the money is an issue, you can make reasonable arbors with cork, wood, or even scrap plastic (given you have the tooling to do this).

Buddy

AMEN! It dont take a lot of effort to chuck a piece of wood in a lathe and bore an ID to fit the blank...and turn the OD to fit the reelseat and in many cases even that isnt needed. I used a lot of Struble reelseats with wood inserts and the ID of the insert was always smaller than even the skinny fly rod blanks I used. Id just chick the wood insert into my lathe and bore the ID of it out. Done....no arbor needed.

[kbproctor]

Anybody got an extra lathe?

What was this thread about to begin with?