Big Fly Furled Leader

[JohnScott]

It seems that most of the threads here regarding furled leaders orient to furled leaders for smaller flies, dry flies, generally, and sinking furled leaders made for nymphs and swinging wet flies.

On and off, I use a beefed up 210 denier Danville Flymaster Plus leader on my fast action 7 wt for fishing weighted stonefly nymphs, sometimes in tandem, under an indicator for long drifts on larger rivers.

Thought I would pass along some information on how the leader is constructed, and maybe get some feedback from others who are making their own furled leaders for bigger flies.

My furling jig, which is a lot different that the boards used by those using Kathy Scott's method, starts with a leader length of about 84". The end product is a leader of about 68" ( about 20% reduction from the starting length ).

The leader is a 14-12-10 configuration. Simply a matter of adding a couple more strands to each side of each section of the smaller leaders furled with a 10-8-6 configuration.

The leader proportions are approx 40% butt section, 30% mid section, and 30% tip section. I incorporate a tip ring before starting the furling process. For fishing the bigger nymphs, I use anywhere from 3'-4' of 2x leader for a single fly, and add another 12"-18" of 2X tippet if I am trailing a second nymph.

The indicator is placed on the furled leader far enough up from the tip to get the fly ( flies ) down for the current speed and depth being fished. In shallower water, I'm more inclined to shorten the tippet than move the indicator down the leader.

As to attaching the indicator to the leader, my indicators have a loop at the bottom. Simply form a loop in the furled leader where the indicator goes, push that through the loop in the indicator, take the looped furled leader over the indicator and snug it down - forming a "handshake" loop connection. This method of attaching the indicator to the furled leader results in an indicator that stays put, but can also be easily moved up or down the leader as conditions ( current speed and depth ) change.

It always surprises me how well this beefed up thread furled leader handles big flies under an indicator. Under good casting conditions, it is possible to throw a fairly tight loop, and when the loop gets to the leader, the leader just kind of "kicks" the flies over. An interesting sight for sure.

Anyway, thought I would pass this along, and maybe get some ideas from others using heavier duty versions of furled leaders for the bigger and heavier flies.

John

[tailingloop]

Some west coast anglers (and maybe others, or probably others) have been developing and refining twisted (not exactly the same as furled) leaders for big fly/big game fishing over the last few years, including tarpon and bluewater flyfishing. They are typically made from 12, 15 or 20lb test mono. I have made a couple and they are fairly easy to make.

Some instructions are here

www.excellentadventures.org/Excellent%20Adventures/3_stage_leader.htm
www.excellentadventures.org/Excellent%20Adventures/big_game_leader.htm

The instructions do not show this, but many anglers are incorporating a small high quality barrel swivel into the tippet end of the big game leader to allow for quick tippet changes and prevent twists from building up in the leader as can happen with many topwater patterns that have a tendency to spin during the cast.

You can buy twisted leaders here
www.twistedleaders.com/index.html

(I have no connection with either website)

[Lotech]

Hi John,
Do you think that adding a couple of extra turns of Uni 6/0 to the pegs one a Kathy Scott board would do the same thing as what you're using? My board is pretty rustic, and I'm too cheap to build another one.

[JohnScott]

Hi John,
Do you think that adding a couple of extra turns of Uni 6/0 to the pegs one a Kathy Scott board would do the same thing as what you're using? My board is pretty rustic, and I'm too cheap to build another one.

Joe -

I'm reasonably confident that you could beef up a Uni 6/0 using the same approach, but I wonder if even at that it would handle the larger flies. I think you could just go to the 210 denier Danville instead of the Uni 6/0 - no reason Kathy's method wouldn't work with it.

I think there are some folks doing leaders with much high configuration numbers than 10-8-6 with threads small than the Uni. Seems like Joni has done some really high numbers ??

Not sure about the proportions you are using, and that will be a factor also. Seems to me that some furlers are coming in with much less than 40% at the butt end and much longer mid and tip sections. I think you need the longer butt section to help kick over the bigger flies.

John

[JohnScott]

tailingloop -

Thanks for posting the links on the twisted leaders. I saw an article a couple years ago in one of the fly fishing magazines about a technique for twisting mono leaders but didn't really take note of how to do it since I was quite happy with the furled leaders I make. I think the technique shown for the big game leaders is the same, just using bigger leader material.

BB member kglissmeyer does a leader which I believe is a twisted leader, and perhaps using the same or a similar technique to the one shown in the links. I know that he really likes the leaders he builds, whatever his technique and material. Hopefully he'll chime in.

I guess my reaction to the twisted leaders is that even using lighter weight material, they would not be as supple as the thread furled leaders, beefed up for the big flies or the regular ( 10-8-6 ) size. One thing I really like about the thread leaders, even the beefed up ones, is their flexibility - not only as in suppleness - and that you can switch out the tippet and go from fishing smaller dries to large weighted nymphs. Doesn't seem to me that the twisted leaders would offer the same advantages ??

John

[kglissmeyer]

And chime in I will, thanks, John. I do "roll my own", leaders that is. The links provided don't really go into detail and don't provide instructions for compound leaders. Nevertheless, I am hooked by this method of leader construction and now only use these types of leaders for all of my flyfishing applications, be it 12-foot leaders on my favorite spring creek or 4-footers for my 8-wt for silver salmon in Alaska. I can twist a 7-foot compound leader in less than 5 minutes; I've even done it on the water when I forgot to bring a spare and had troubles. Usually I will fish a single leader for most of the season. The ease of construction, smooth turnover from anything from size #22 dries to large 00 streamers and the stretch while fighting a fish keep me coming back. I haven't used a regular tapered mono leader for the past 5 years. These leaders are made only out of mono (usually 2x Maxima) and terminate to a 2x tippet to which you can add tippet material for whatever application you need.
Anyway, there you have my 2-cents worth.

Kelly.

[FISHN50]

I just got back from the Bahamas & I used 90" furled leaders i made with
Berkley Vanish Flourocarbon 4#. The taper is 3-2-1-1-2-3. I caught some bones up to 3-4-5 #'s & it handled them well. we had quite a bit of wind & it handled it well. I picked up a Barracuda about 30"'s using a wire tippet trolling . I was using 10 or 12 # flouro tippet most of the time & on one occassion I went to 8# for spooky fish. I love these furled leaders & will never go back to straight mono.
The twisted leaders you're talking about. are they those Singapore Leaders ????. If so there is a lot of info on the net about them.

[tailingloop]

tailingloop -

One thing I really like about the thread leaders, even the beefed up ones, is their flexibility - not only as in suppleness - and that you can switch out the tippet and go from fishing smaller dries to large weighted nymphs. Doesn't seem to me that the twisted leaders would offer the same advantages ??

John

I guess when we talk about big flies, context is important. For the situations where I consider using a twisted leader, a 1/0 fly would be considered small. I think of a size 8 fly as being tiny for much of the fishing I do. If the twisted leader is constructed with a loop in the end, then tippet can easily be switched out as condtions and applications dictate. The twisted leaders that I have built are designed for turning over and accurately delivering large flies and heavy flies (1/0 to 8/0 hooks) and providing a shock cushion. They are not as supple as as furled thread leaders. By twisting and folding the single strand of mono you can create a leader that essentially has a two strand mid section and four strand butt section, to which tippet is added. As Kelly stated, compound leaders can be built using this method, but is not needed for the big game stuff. A two stage leader plus tippet works well for the situations were I use it. Were not talking trout fishing here. I have yet to see or build a twisted mono leader that is as supple as a furled leader. Twisted leaders not really a new concept. I know fly anglers who have been using twisted leaders for presenting big flies for more than a decade and other probably before that. Twisted leaders have been used for big game fishing with spinning and casting tackle for a long long time. They are another tool in the bag.

[JohnScott]

tailingloop -

I think my original post gave the context - distinguishing small dries from weighted stoneflies - fished off furled leaders of whatever material.

You have a completely different context for the kind of fishing you do and the flies you use. That is great and certainly opened up the thread to a more interesting discussion.

In fact, I gave my old furling jig to a fellow in Idaho Falls rather than store it and / or move it ( it was rather fragile ), thinking I would build a new one when we got settled here in Montana. Now I'm thinking I should experiment with twisted leaders before I build a new furling jig. Kelly is sending me a couple of his, and digging up some more complete reference material for me.

When it comes to leaders, for the kind of trout fishing I do - moving water from small streams to pretty good size rivers - the most important thing for me is DRIFT. My experience is that the best drift is achieved with a very supple leader than submerges but does not sink even a very small dry fly. Thread leaders fill the bill nicely, but that doesn't mean I won't try something else.

Others have different priorities for their leaders, either because of the kind of fishing they do or their preferences on how a leader responds in their fishing situations. Hope to hear from some more folks on the subject of furled ( and / or twisted ) leaders for larger ( trout ) flies.

Thanks for joining the thread. It's all good.

John

[ducksterman]

Well, John, no one seems to be stepping in so I will and consider it a form of bump.

Here's what I did recently...not so much for large flies but for an 8 wt. for steelhead.

I chose 4# Vanish Transition...Warren and Jack say Transition is the heaviest fluoro...and I wanted the fly to go down...and it would be plenty strong

6 ft leader with 3 ft of tippet...so the line to leader knot wouldn't really be an issue on a 9 ft rod...[use the Castwell knot though so {k}not really a problem anyway]...note the cleaver pun

Used a 4 step taper....18 - 16 - 14 - 12 -10 strands....using Parnelli's Big Furled Leaders Formula....

Performed beautifully....unfortunately no bumps though.