Tension and furled leaders

[ducksterman]

Folks that twist to 10% reduction don't really have to worry about tension...just maintain enough till @ -10%.

It seems to me if you want to twist to just before pigtailling or to breakage and then back off... the amount of tension maintained becomes very important.

How do you decide how much to use for your techniques?

Jack, I know you are in the 10% group.

John, I know your manual techique...sort of from the opposite end of someone like me who maintains tension with a drill from the butt end.

Denny, I think yours is spring loaded...before you get to the breaking point do you get pigtailling?

Kaboom, how do you decide what weights to use based on the material?????


For folks that aren't aware here's a reference....

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/s...ighlight=denny

[JohnScott]

Duck -

I'm glad you started this thread furled leader.

Getting back to the question I raised about tension on another furled leader thread, if you hold the twisting device firm and do not let it move toward the far end of the leader during twist, the leader will break before reducing even 1%. If you apply no tension at all and just let the material freely wind, it seems there would not be enough twist at 10% to cause the material to furl.

I don't know if you have used Kevlar. It is a VERY STRONG fly tying thread. As an experiment several years ago, I applied enough tension to a 10-8-6 configuration of kevlar to break it during the twisting process. That being said, someone once told me that while kevlar has strength against a straight pull, it does have some weakness when subjected to the forces of twist. Having said that, I get back to the point that if you apply enough tension, you will never reach 10%.

I don't mean to be argumentative, I am genuinely interested in how you can apply tension in a controlled way so that you get uniform furled leaders. Parnelli described a weight system that seemed to make sense, if I understood him correctly, and my recollection is that Kaboom has a weight rig that applies uniform tension leader to leader during twist.

But if you are doing it "free hand," how do you ensure an appropriate amount of tension ??

John

P.S. Having asked the question, I will add that my system does allow for minor variances in the amount of tension applied during twist, and also a minor variance during furling, leader to leader. Not quite as controlled as a weight system, but seemingly more consistent than free hand.

[ducksterman]

John,

The short answer is.... because you are going to "just before" pigtailling....and marking that spot on the board...therefore repeatable...

I suppose there is a little variation but really it's pretty similar to what Denny describes with his just before breakage system.

You twist keeping enough tension manually till you get pigtailling the more tension you apply the more twist you can obtain...take the twist too far with too much tension...crash....so back off...when you have found the point of maximum twist with maximum allowable tension ...then you are at the point where that material will not tolerate more twist...then you mark that spot on your board for that material.

Pretty similar to Denny's technique but it seems to me I can't do it with a motorized system without a consistent tension....hence my question....thinking of motorizing....I have sewing machine motors burning a hole on my shelf.

[brhoff]

Aside if I may?

Does lack of tension/reduction result in springy/mushy leaders?

My last couple, I got a little shy on reducing after a few blow out but now they seem a bit springy.

Sorry by springy, I mean they stretch when a fish nabs the fly.

[jw healy]

I make most of mine with Uni 6/0 thread and use a hand held power drill for twisting. I sight down the twisting thread and watch the amount of bow in the line. If it begins to look like a jump rope I add tension, if it looks like a straight line I relax the tension. What I want to see is a slight bow (maybe a half inch) as the thread twists. I am also a "10%er" so I stop twisting when I reach that point. I do think maintaining reasonable tension is important in the final product even for "10%ers".

[FISHN50]

I twist both legs at the same time on a horizintal board. I put a peg thru an empty thread spool, cut or notched out a section of the end of the board & drilled thru the board & mounted the spool. I have a ball bearing swivel on a cord attached to a weight that hangs over the edge on the thread spool which can turn on the peg. ( not pretty ,but it works).. This gives me even tension all thru the length changes as you make the leader. I experimented & decided what weights to use for different materials. I twist to the 10% point or to the point where the legs just start to pigtail which is close to the 10% point anyway.

[ducksterman]

Aside if I may?

Does lack of tension/reduction result in springy/mushy leaders?

My last couple, I got a little shy on reducing after a few blow out but now they seem a bit springy.

Sorry by springy, I mean they stretch when a fish nabs the fly.

In my opinion the tighter the furl the better the leader....having said that I'm splitting hairs... a 10% leader is a very very good leader....some of us just like to live on the edge.....I've never crashed a 10% leader.

All leaders must be made using some tension as FISHN50 states...it just that you can get a tighter twist with maximum tension if you are willing to go past 10%.

I would think your stretchiness is more a function of the material you are using...that is.. some finished leaders will inherently have more stretch depending on the material.

Of course there are materials that indeed do better with more than a 10% reduction.