Why head cement???

[Buddy Sanders]

Some of you use it.

Some of you don't.

I keep hearing that not using it because you 'whip finish' seems to work fine...

Some things to think about....

What does the average 'regular' head cement do? Does it really 'cement' or 'glue' the thread? Does it really 'seal' the threads so they don't soak up water? (one reason why using them on dry fly makes more sense if the weight of the water the thread absorbs will be more than the 'weight' of the cement itself..I just don't know, but it bears consideration).

The ones that 'penetrate' the thread are certainly more likely to aid in durability...but does just one application of lacquer (Sally's, hardware store lacquer, many 'fly specific' head cements are basically types of Lacquer) or a water based acrylic or polyurethane do enough to really help? But, many of our threads are 'waxed'...I 'think' that the solvent based head cements will penetrate the wax, operative word think, but I'm pretty sure that the wax will keep out a good amount of the water based stuff...that's why we wax the threads...to seal them so that they don't fray as much? so dubbing will stick? to help keep water out?...I 'think'...

If you don't use it, can the cycle of absorbing water, then drying out, repeated a few times weaken ANY head knot? The threads we use for tying do elongate and then shrink when going through the absorb water/dry out cycle....

I know that it's been years since a fly head 'came apart' on me, and I only use head cement on patterns where I want the head to be 'shiny' or 'show' as part of the pattern.....but I use up a lot of lies when I fish and few go more than a trip or two before they are 'expended'.

Would switching to a CA glue with NO knot be more efficient and give you a stronger head that is really 'sealed'? I've begun using this on spun deer hair flies, mostly for convenience, it sticks and holds the gel spun thread I use for this really well, and they are lasting as long as those that I 'whip finished', maybe longer.

So many of us do without head cement on many flies, makes you wonder why it's the 'historical norm' to use it? Whip finishing has been around for longer than I've been alive, and I know that even a couple of properly applied half hitches is plenty secure as a 'knot' goes. Why do most of the guys who do this for real all use head cement?

I've heard guys that tie commercially say that they use head cement on flies they tie 'for sale' but not on their own flies....that begets the question..if it's 'better' to use it, why not do so on ALL of your flies?? It's not like it takes more than a second or so to apply...you don't save any time and the stuff is arguably the cheapest part of fly tying...if it's 'better' don't you also deserve the 'best' from your own tying? Conversely, if you are doing fine without uisng it, catching lots of fish and not having any failure problems, why do it on ANY flies, even if they are for 'sale'?? I've never heard a 'customer' say he wouldn't buy a fly because he couldn't see that head cement had been used on it....I seriously doubt that 99% of the fly buying public EVER looks at that part of a fly (unless it's a pattern where the 'head' is part of the pattern, like the glossy heads on streamers, etc.).

I've been in a couple of shops when they open up boxes of flies..the lacquer smell is pretty evident.....how does THAT effect teh flies performance? Can the fish detect it? I often wonder...

I know I'm rambling, been a long week...but I do wonder about all of this stuff...

Buddy

[Ron Eagle Elk]

Buddy,

It has, indeed, been a long week. Back to head cement. I have a couple I use on flies for swaps or give-away (got to have those shiney heads), Sally Hansen's or Cellire Varnish. Both smell (Cellire is worse) and both give shiney heads.

If I'm using waxed Pearsall's silk I don't use any head cement because the wax usually keeps everything in place.

At the rate I wind up with flies in trees, stuck on logs, jammed under logs or stuck in a fish's jaw after he breaks off my tippet, I just can't see spending the extra time on a fly that I may only get to cast a handful of times.

REE

[fritz]

I too am heading into the direction of NO head cement any more. Proper whip finishing does it all.

[fishbum]

Buddy,

You need to go fishing!

I use head cement because my customers demand it. Flies I tie for me to test new patterns, I don't bother. They will come apart after 40 - 50 nice bluegills but then so does the ones that have had head cement used on them. Oh well, What's an old fishbum to do?

fishbum

[ducksterman]

I find myself using Loctite Super glue with the precision nozzle more and more.....because of the precision tip it's quick easy and iron clad....not shiny.

[kglissmeyer]

With a proper whip finish (I do mine by hand-no tool) they rarely, if ever come undone. Yet, I still use cement on flies tied with any type of mylar flashback that ends at the head (especially beadheads). When the flies get wet, the thread becomes more pliable and the flashback can work loose - the fly still remains tied up, but the flash back is sticking up. That's the only time I use cement to hold things in place. I do use a lot of epoxy and Sally Hansen for fly bodies to give them a certain lifelike effect, but not necessarilly to secure thread wraps.
Kelly.

[JohnScott]

Habit ??

I use a water based head cement on almost every fly I tie, whether I finish tying with a whip finish or some half hitches. Can't really say one way or the other if it makes a difference in the flies staying together, but don't really see any reason to do without it.

I do know that when I salvage hooks from beat up flies, the cemented thread really does want to hold together even after the fly has been fished enough to be retired, so it is probably fair to assume that it is not a waste of time or money to use the cement.

Not sure if he does it all the time, but last spring one of the best fly tiers I know ( Bruce Staples ) demo'd finishing tying with no half hitch or whip finish at all, just dabbing some head cement on the thread before making the last several wraps.

John

[jdubach]

I don't use head cement to "hold thread together." I whip finish everything. Even stuff a half hitch is supposed to do well on because I ALWAYS have a half-hitch come undone when I really don't need it to. I use it as a water proofing material. If I'm using waxed thread I sometimes do without if it's a small pattern and applying the cement would be tricky. I don't use it on dries since they're not supposed to be in the water. I always cement my streamer and bucktails, as well as nymphs.

And I don't use true head cement at all. I did when I first started, but I found the actual labeled "head cement" didn't work well after awhile and gummed up. Instead I use Hard As Nails exclusively.

[Bamboozle]

Smell??

Besides all of the reasons mentioned by JohnScott, I dig the smell too!

There are three odors that make me think flytying: mothballs, natural skins, and the smell of a good cancinogenic head cement. I consider it sensory deprivation if one of those smells is missing from my tying area!

[ridgeliner]

I just whip finish. I haven't noticed any problems. If the flies lasted forever I wouldn't have an excuse to tie more. I usually end up losing them long before thy fall apart. If I caught only one nice fish for every fly I tied, I would be the happiest person on this earth.