Tapered leader without tippet?

[ironbyron]

Does anyone do this? I know the leaders are more expensive but it just seems like the tippet isn't necessary. Anyone?

Byron

[Buddy Sanders]

Byron,

When you buy a 'tapered leader' only the last foot or so is the 'tippet diameter'. The rest gets thicker as it gets closer to the fly line, thus the apellation 'tapered'.

As you tie on flies, change flies, etc. during a day of fishing, you 'use up' that thinner portion. Eventually, the leader gets too thick for the presentation desired. THAT's what 'tippet material' is for. You add it on to the tapered leader, so that when you are 'using up' the material, you aren't using it from the leader itself, but from the level tippet section you have added.

If you do this, your tapered leader can last several seasons.

However, if you don't care about that, you can always just tie your flies directly to your leader, and replace it when it gets too thick or short.

I know many fly fishermen who will start out tying their flies directly to the leader, then add tippet only after they 'use up' the level tippet section.

I'm cheap, so if I'm using a store bought tapered leader, I always start out with a couple of feet of tippet tied to it. That way, the only time I 'use up' leader length is when I have to add new tippet material. That may occur once every other fishing day, while changing flies can occur many times each day. This makes my leaders last longer. As I've said, I'm cheap.

Buddy

[ironbyron]

Thanks for the reply. I should fess up that I am tortured by trying to tie the bloodknot. I just successfully tied one, or at least I hope it was a success. I'm sure there's got to be an easy way to do this. Maybe as time goes by I'll get better at it. I looked at mine under a magnifying glass and it "looks" good. Only time will tell.

Byron

[tailingloop]

The amount of tippet built into a premade tapered leader can vary. On some leaders for trout this can be 3 or 4 feet long. On heavier leaders often sold as "Bass" leaders it may only be a foot.



I use a loop to loop connection to joint tippet and leader in a lot of situations. If using a pre-made tapered leader, once the built in tippet is used up, I tie a non-slip mono loop knot in the end. To add tippet, I take some tippet material ( or regular mono fishing line), tie a non-slip mono loop knot in one end , and loop it to the loop in in the leader. On many of my panfish and bass rigs, I just use one leader all year, since with the loop to loop system I don't have to cut the leader back to add more tippet, though I may need to shorten it a little at a time to replace the loop knot if it gets damaged.

If joining tippet material to a leader without loop knots, I use the double or triple surgeons knot. It is much easier to tie and stronger than a blood knot.

I use single piece level mono leaders for a lot of subsurface work, especially with sink tip and sinking lines. Very inexpensive, especially since I get it from the bulk spools that I fill my spinning and baitcasing reels with.

[ducksterman]

Byron,

You should learn the blood knot...you can use it when you have time ...but out on the water you may find a double surgeons knot ...is easier... faster & strong if done properly...plus it's more friendly when joining materials of greater size differences or even softness's...is that a word?

As far as tapered leaders goes...pretty much as Buddy said.
Here's how I do it...let's say I want to use 3/0 tippet ...I'll buy a 2/0 leader and add the 3/0...so when I get down close or to the knot I know that's where the 2/0 is...that way I always know the size at the end of the leader.If I buy 3/0 and add 3/0 it doesn't make sense to me in most cases...plus I can add more 3/0.

Just pick your #'s. You do need to also factor in length.

[BobC]

Thanks for the reply. I should fess up that I am tortured by trying to tie the bloodknot. I just successfully tied one, or at least I hope it was a success. I'm sure there's got to be an easy way to do this. Maybe as time goes by I'll get better at it. I looked at mine under a magnifying glass and it "looks" good. Only time will tell.

Byron

Don't be afraid to try another knot. The figure 8 works well for me to attach tippet line, just be careful to wet and draw the knot well so it doesn't slip, and a the good old reliable surgeons works as well. I like the thinner profile of the figure 8. Buddy's suggestion sounds good as well to prolong leader life.

[jrgocards]

I HIGHLY recommend the Davy knot to tie your flies to the tippet. Fast, easy and it holds better than any other I've tried. I can tie a new fly on in seconds with the Davy knot.

JR

[CoachBob]

Remember we're in the Warmwater Forum here guys. No tapered leader required.

But if you really want, what you can do is have a butt section of 20# line, maybe 30 inches.
To that tie three feet of 10# test. For those of you who are blood knot challenged, tie a surgeon's knot. Now you can fish bass flies right there.
OR
Tie on another couple of feet of 8# test. Fine for bass and large bream.
OR
Tie on yet another couple of feet of 6# test. That's at fine as you'll ever need to go.

OR

Forget the 10# test and go right to 5 feet of 8# test and use just that. If you do the popper dropper, your popper is at the end of the 8# test and your dropper is on another 18 inches of 6#.

For the 6# I usually use Vanish.

[Buddy Sanders]

Byron,

While I diagree that a surgeons knot is stronger than a blood knot, it is easier to tie and will work just fine.

However, learning to tie good knots, and certainly knowing the more popular ones well, is part of the sport and something you should spend some time on. You can find information all over the web about different knots.

If you are going to be fishing mainly warmwater, you will need a good loop knot. Either what they call the 'non slip' or the 'Rapala' knot are good. Most topwater flies, clousers, and any fly you want to move freely will benefit from being tied on with a loop knot. This is especially true with tippets above around four pound test.

For attaching the tippet to the fly without a loop, you have lots of options. Many folks use a clinch or improved clinch. The Trilene is similar, but stronger. The Palomar is MUCH stronger, but uses up a lot of tippet to tie, thus not as popular with fly fishermen (it's what I now use when I'm not using a loop knot, but I'm always looking for a better knot).

The North American Fishing Club (I'm not a member, but I like this part) has been doing a 'knot wars' thing on both their website and their TV show...you can find it at fishingclub.com..it is pretty interesting to see, plus they show how to tie the knots as well as how they stack up in head to head competition with other knots.

Most of us don't do this, but we shoud: get a simple scale and 'test' your knots. Sometimes you will learn that although a knot is reputed to be 'strong' it won't be for you (we all do things differently, even when we try to 'copy' something).

Knots are important if you find losing fish to your own error frustrating. I do know guys who really don't care all that much since they are going to let the fish go anyway. Up to you.

Buddy

[FishnDave]

I just tie a "No Knot Fas-Snap" to the end of the (store-bought) tapered leader. I can switch flies easily without having to cut-and-tie as often. I just cut and re-tie when the line gets abraded...or re-tie when I lose a fly due to line breakage because of a fish or snag.

By the time I use up the non-tapered portion of the leader, I either replace the leader because its full of wind knots (I'm sure this only happens to me), or I will then tie on tippet material if the leader is still in good condition.