Taught myself a lesson the last couple of days, all those flys I'v seen coming off the water in the past that are white in color or pale, I just knew they was a size 14, I'v been tying up some 14 drys Adams etc. and decided to add Cayhills, pale morning duns , and kept trying to ty them on 14 size hooks, frustraiting, they looked so HUGE...lol finally after a few atemps I decided to scale down, tyed them up on a size 16 hook, guess what, they look like a size 14, I know white makes things look bigger, thats why alot of rooms in houses are painted white, I shoulda thought about that with nature too, good lesson for me...