New Mustad Hooks

[wayneb]

Hi All;

Picked up the Mustad conversion chart and new catalog at the Somerset, NJ show this weekend. Another pointed out on the conversion chart that the 9672 series classic hook, a 3x length show it's replacement being the R74-9672 which is a 4x hook. I happened to have some size 10 9672's and they match up in length with the new R73-9671 in the catalog.

I haven't checked any other classic hooks but wonder if there are other examples where things don't quite seem to jive between the conversion chart and new hook series?

Wayneb

[Eric-WD]

Wayne, check the postings for the past two weeks, one of which is a long thread re Mustad hooks in which Dr.Fish (Mustad Employee) explains the reasons for the switch.

It comes down to the Hooks before were named as close as possible to what they were but were named using old technology.

now with the upgrade using modern tooling, more consistent metal etc they are able to make them more consistent with in the series IE a 4x is 1/4 longer than a 3x and the hook gap goes up or down with the number. And they have upgraded there hooks descriptions to match.

Eric

[Normand]

read here

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/s...ad.php?t=25511

[Clay]

True proportional sizing vs the old way of labeling things. I think that it is a move in the right direction. It will shake things up for a while for people use to the old numbering system, but it should make more sense to people just coming into the hobby.
Rick

[wayneb]

So after re-reading the "Mustad is shafting us" thread I guess you can use the conversiion chart as a general(real general) guidline on old versus new with the understanding that the new hooks are proportionally accurate and the old kinda match up where they will.

In other words, some classic hooks will match up with different signature hooks depending on how true to size that particular classic hook was to begin with??

I think I will check every Mustad classic hook against the new catalog and see what I find. I probably don't have as many as others on this site but bet I have at least a dozen different sizes/models of Mustad classic hooks.

This is confusing and frustrating but a challenge at the same time.

Wayneb

[Eric-WD]

I am not a good enough tier to worry about it, but if I were, I would take an old hook to a fly shop that carried mustad and compare what I had and find the closest equivalent to what I wanted and not worry about what it says on the package untill after I found it. but then I guess it only works if you live close to a good (or two or three good) fly shops



Eric

[Normand]

i dont use mustad hooks alot so i'm not too worried about a millimeter here or there and i dont tie museum quality flies to be concerned about a slight variation in bend shape that may or may not look "traditional" or "classic".

i just wonder why it took mustad so long to fix it??

[Clay]

i dont use mustad hooks alot so i'm not too worried about a millimeter here or there and i dont tie museum quality flies to be concerned about a slight variation in bend shape that may or may not look "traditional" or "classic".

i just wonder why it took mustad so long to fix it??

Tradition

[Buddy Sanders]

It 'may' have been 'tradtiion'.

I'll guess, though, that it had to do with materials on hand and machinery in use.

Hook machines only make money if they get used. Having them 'sit' is wasting money, regardless of 'how many' you may have in stock of a particular hook....steel is relatively 'cheap' as far as hooks making is concerned.

My 'theory' is:

What if, back when Mustad was 'the' hook, they made, and kept making hooks by the millions....when the unthinkable happened, and Mustad became the readheaded step child of the fly tying market, all of a sudden there wasn't as large of a market for all them hooks.

Had to keep making them...machining is expensive. You 'use' these tools until they are worn out. So, what if they kept making 'classic' hooks on the older machines until they couldn't make any more. Since they had pretty much decided by then that the market for them was 'down', it wouldn't make sense for Mustad to 'retool' to make the 'same old hooks', when came the time to make new machines, they made the changes.

For all I know, they may have stopped making the classic hooks years back, but still had a couiple tons of them stockpiled.

What we are likely seeing now is the result of Mustad finally running down on stocks of the 'classic' hooks.

That's my 'theory'. I could be wrong. If so, someone ought to buy the old classic hooks making stuff, if it's still operable, and get the mback on the market....

I like all the posts about the 'look' of the classic hooks, folks worrying about 'that'. Lets face it, way less than 1/10 of 1% of the FLY TYERS out there cares even a tiny part of a damn about such things. If, as you claim, such things really matter to you, buy a box 'now' and you'll have a lifetimes supply of 'show box' fly hooks. The fish don't care if the wire diameter, lenght, or whatever is exact. Close, like within a 1/2 inch, is fine.

The bottom line is that the 'classic' hooks were cheap. Not badly made, or inferior. THAT is what all the hubbub is about. Folks are upset that their source of inexpensive hooks is maybe going away.

The 'classics' COST LESS. Why? Because they were made on machines already paid for, maybe over a generation or more ago. Probably made with steel purchased in huge quantities after WW II when they were scrapping all those ships and such and it was CHEAP.

A machine that cost $100,000 in the 30's, suitably upgraded with all the new OSHA requirements, made with todays labor costs and materials, is probably over a couple of million bucks now. Hooks made on that machine will cost more than those made on the cheaper machine. You see, they have to 'pay for' the machine. It wasn't free. They had to 'buy it'.

Things change. We are now starting to see 'cheap' hooks coming off of the machines made in the orient (they get cheaper to use as they get older...). My last pruchase of 1,000 'premium' hooks ran me $55 retail. Eventualy these 'deals' will begin to show up in the shops as more and more folks see the opportunity to enter this market (they will, vacuums in the business world ALWAYS get filled).

Until then, folks who want to 'save money' on hooks, and aren't too lazy to take the time to look around a bit, will be able to do so. The lazy guys will just whine about it.

Buddy

[wayneb]

Hi Buddy;

I agree, Mustad has been giving us a real deal on hooks compared to others. I don't blame them for the switch at all.

I'm just a little lost on comparing classic hook sizes to the signature hook sizes. I've come to the conclusion that it's like comparing apples and oranges.

I've only been tying for a few years and don't tie near as many flies as others. When I try a new pattern, I start out trying to tie it with a comparable hook to best duplicate the pattern as tied. Once I've created a reasonable imitation and fish it, then I may change it to best suit my taste. But I feel much more comfortable tying as close to original including hook size & style.

I guess in a way this is a mixed blessing, on the one hand I and others are a little confused about how a particular hook compares from old to new. But, the new nomeclature is more descriptive of the hook and consistant across the line in size. Plus, I'm definetly learning a lot more about hooks!

Wayneb