Thanks barry i'll not be letting they flies lie in the box. For tieing the klinkhammer use the partridge klinkhamer extreme hook and that will give you what your looking for. Have a look on this thread barry its from a uk forum i use some very good info on the hook and pics showing the differnce in the hooks in the water.
http://www.completefisher.com/forum/...pic.php?t=7391