Non-Trout Tactics

[FarmerJohn]

Those of you who have read Joe Humphrey's Trout Tactics (link to Amazon) will have an idea what I'm getting at here. I would say the book is recommended reading for anyone who fly fishes for trout, and certainly required reading if you fly fish for trout on small streams and spring creeks. Joe Humphrey's is a well-known central PA flyfisherman and between the book and classes at Penn State, I developed a toolset for solving fly fishing problems on trout streams. Almost any day I went out, I could get some rises from fish. Didn't catch fish every day, but things weren't terrible. When I went to fish the Missouri River in Montana and the Bow River in Canada, I could adapt the same toolset and catch trout.

Now I have moved to Illinois (some of you might remember my earlier thread about that), and I am completely lost. I have no toolset. I have gone out fly-fishing once in early september on the Fox River and once a week ago on the Kishwaukee. The fishing situations and the fish themselves are different; clearly these are not limestone streams holding trout. The only things I have caught are tree branches, moss, and knee-deep mud.

So my question for people who fish the slower-moving rivers in the midwest, what's in your mental toolset? What water temperature ranges do use? How did you develop it? Do you have links or books to recommend, or suggestions you can give me?

[cross creek]

I won't offer any earth-shattering advice here. There are quite a few books on bass and bluegill fly fishing, and all have something to offer. Having grown up in an area with only warmwater and little fly fishing going on, I learned how from magazines and books, most of which were about moving water and trout. I applied trout tactics to my slow southern waters and caught plenty of fish. I'd tend to say that fish in moving water behave similarly, regardless of species--the same goes for stillwater. In fact, when in later years I tried to apply tactics and tackle specifically designed for warmwater, I had less success and enjoyment. A few things, though--warmwater fish are rarely tippet shy and often live in a more snag-prone environment, so don't worry about whether you need 5x or 6x--you usually need 2x or 3x for 'gills and heavier for bass. Warmwater fish will take small flies, as small as the most finicky trout. The problem is that they'll take them into their often small mouths so deep you'd have to kill the fish to retrieve them. I hardly ever need to go below a fat #12 or 14, and often a #10 or above is better. Traditional "trout" patterns will often do as well or better than fancy warmwater ties. That being said, the most popular warmwater patterns are probably a #8-10 sponge rubber spider with rubber "hackle" and a similarly sized wet fly consisting of chartreuse chenille and more of that "hackle" (on a lark, I tried these "flies" on Appalachian brookies, and they were ravenously supportive of my experiment!) You could (and many do) go after warmwater fish with 000-3wt tackle. You may find it easier going to stay with 4-8wt tackle, depending on the water and flies. In open water, there isn't a bass or panfish that couldn't be landed quickly on ultralight tackle. Open water is not usually abundant, though, and even an 8oz bluegill can wrap your 8wt around a submerged tree so well you'll never get it out. Kind of up to you and what you find more fun. In general, I'd say warmwater fishing can be as "technical" as you want to make it, or as blissfully simple--have it your way!
-CC

[brhoff]

If your in IL and fishing this week or last, chances are "the season" is done. Unless you are certain Trout are in those rivers, try again about May or so.

Most warm water fish are pretty well holed up when water temps start dipping into the 50's...that said, many catch year round but that takes the "knowing where they lay".

[Steven]

Welcome to Illinois, now head (in season) to Wisconsin or Michigan.

As already pointed out, this isn't exactly the season for warmwater fish. Bass are sunfish after all.

To be honest, I've never had much success on the Kish. Went twice, got exactly 2 fish, broke one rod. I'm not convinced there are a whole lot of fish in there.

Fly angler's never do particularly well on the Fox. The water is very fast making it very difficult to get the fly down. Think about a sinking line, if you want to keep trying.

The Kankakee to the south is more flyfishing friendly.

The fishing for steelhead in and around Milwaukee and Sheboygan should be picking up I'd think. Salmon run should be over. This isn't my thing, but you could check out thesteelheadsite.com for reports.

The Early trout season starts in Wisconsin on the first Saturday in March, I think (I usually head up in April). There are plenty of guide books available. Just remember your small streams are very large compared to Wisconsin.

Iowa never closes. Not sure what the deal is with Michigan. I head west, not east - but with my son going to Michigan State next year, maybe that'll change.

Here at home, think the Chicago Park Districts and the Forest Preserves for 'gills, crappie and an occasional LM bass or carp. Some of the FP's also have pike and a few allow canoeing.

[FishnDave]

I used to live in northern Illinois. I worked across the street from the Fox River in St. Charles, and lived across the street from the Kishwaukee in Genoa.
I only spin-fished the Fox. South Elgin was a favorite spot, but there's plenty of good places all the way downstream from there. Fish below the dams and around the bridges, especially.

There are some excellent places on the Kishwaukee as well. Rocky rapids usually are good, but downed trees are even better! There's a good population of nice-sized rock bass in the Kish. They will hit almost all winter long if you can find rocks in a deep pool. I've caught 'em in December thru February, and they would spit up mouthfuls of big dragonfly nymphs. There are also the odd pike and walleye in the Kish, but most the fishing is for smallies. I usually used spinning gear back then, but I've fly-fished for them during the summer there. I'd highly recommend minnow imitators such as the Thunder Creek Minnow. Try natural minnow colors, and some with yellow or chartreuse in the belly.

And as has been said already, smallies head for the deepest pools once the water drops to 50 degrees, and can be rather sluggish hitters. Definitely give it a shot again next summer!!

[LigonierA1]

Farmer John, this is an interesting topic you bring up. I have a different, yet very similar problem.

I too am from Pa, have read/practiced "Trout Tactics"(if you trout fish, this is as close to a timeless classic as you'll find) and likewise had Joe's class at PSU. I'm fortunate on all accounts. And I catch my share of spotted critters. It works well.

A few years ago, I wanted to broaden my horizons in the ff'n world. Warmwater surrounds me in SW Pa, more so than quality trout water. I decided to start warmwater fly fishing again.

Like you, I feel without a clue on the subject. I do horribly on the lakes and big slow rivers. I've got a very good smallmouth stream and river nearby and can manage enough fish to stay entertained but man I work for them. I too have realized...this is COMPLETELY different than what I'm used to and I'm NOT terribly good at it.

What makes it especially ironic is that I learned to use a flyrod as a kid on bluegill ponds, smallie streams etc. I was good at it then but I've spent the last 30 years chasing other pesuirts and it isn't coming back all that easily.

[LigonierA1]

This book is pretty good. It's not quite as "text book" as Trout Tactics but it covers some of the topics we're pondering.

http://www.flyfishohio.com/Fly_Fishi...ter_Rivers.htm

[Mato Kuwapi]

I fish a slower warm water river just down the street from me. I am also a big fan of Joe Humpreys. I'm not sure if it's because I learned to fish from Ian James on my home river before I tackled cold water trout rivers or not, but the techniques are very similar. Warm water offers far less top water action however, so you need to really concentrate on the nymphing if you want to get anywhere. Joe is, without a doubt, one of the best. He does just as well on the water here as he does on his home streams. I know the fellow who was pared with Joe on a one fly contest up here a few years back. That fellow got his butt kicked HUGE.

A good part of the time I use upstream nymphing techniques. Check out Joe's nymping video. The only thing is the bottom of this river isn't as friendly as the trout streams I fish. I loose a lot of flies. Also know your fish species. Carp are really not that diffent than going for trout when nothing in rising. Small nymphs and cray fish patterns work the best. Caddis and midges dominate the river here. SM bass will go after nymphs, streamers and crayfish. Poppers on top work too, but you need to know WHERE and when to use them. My favorite flies for Bass are Muddlers of various types, Puke flies and crayfish...but I also fish nymphs for them. My largest river bass to date was a SM on a #16 midge larva.

Last but not least, you have to keep trying and give up on the cute little trout dries. If a bass is going to hit a dead drifted dry, it's going to be big like a grasshopper, cricket, or hex. If you have a good hatch of those it's a good time for dry fly action.

You need to find out what species is in your river then start from there. ...and a good fly to start with is a good ol Olive (or black) Woolly Bugger. It's the one fly choice for most, "I don't know what to do?" situations.

[Greg H]

You certainly have some excellent replies and it's great to see the 'locals' providing current data. I would only add that my preferred reference for bass fishing is Harry Murray's 'Fly Fishing for Smallmouth Bass'. It describes bass locations and habits, preferred food, fly patterns and how to fish them.
I also agree with the above comments inferring that techniques for catching large trout are similar to those used for catching bass anywhere.
In general however at this time of year most fish (except early steelhead) are in deep holes and slow to respond to anything.

[Mato Kuwapi]

In general however at this time of year most fish (except early steelhead) are in deep holes and slow to respond to anything.

SO TRUE!! It's steelie time!!


Walleye are cooperative this time of year if you have them.