Bear Country Fishmen and Women

[shacked]

Have heard all the jokes about recognizing bear scat, that Grizzly scat has bells in it, but what do you guys and gals use. Will definately carry bear spray, heard udat was the best. But would a whistle around your neck to blow everyonce in a while work or perhaps sound like a dinner bell. Being from florida, alligators and sharks don't bother me, been around them all my life, but just not familiar with Grizzs.

[hap]

Having actually used pepper spray on bears and watched a multitude of serious problems caused by it... I will not bother again. It is less than useful, dangerous to people and not particularly so to bears. I have several stories about personally-witnessed failures...

I regularly fish in bear country, even posted a couple pictures from last week's bear, some of which were at 15 yards. If you need bear protection you need a firearm, period. Handguns are better than nothing, but no substitute for a real gun. Unless you are comfortable shooting a monster handgun (VERY few are) the best bet is a slung,
short 12 gauge shotgun.
art

[shacked]

I have a 24" Mossberg 5" pump but don't think I can take that into yellowstone, oh well, if I see one maybe they don't like southern fried redneck.

[Marco]

Hap,
As you're probably well aware, US national parks are off limits to firearms. So what would do you suggest for that scenario? While you describe the "perfect" bear deterrent, pepper spray must certainly be the next best thing. Of course there are suggestions as to avoiding confrontations in the first place.

Mark

[DG]

Well, the best bet would be to avoid getting into a situation where you need to use the OS option. Step one is to PAY ATTENTION to what is around you and what you are doing. In all the years I have lived and worked and played in the woods, including four years around Yellowstone, I NEVER have been in a bad situation with a bear.

And, frankly, the odds of you getting attacked by bear, unless you are doing something stupid, are so slim as to not be worth worrying about. Worry about a car accident, falling in the bathtub, clogging your arteries, or all the other ways people actually die. Amazingly, one never sees discussions in here about how to avoid a drunk driver on the way to the river. Or about bees, which kill far more people every year than large carnivores. Or white-trailed deer.

I always advise against carrying a handgun (aside from the legal issues) because, frankly, 95% of people wouldn't be able to recognize the situation, draw the weapon, and get off a shot before they got flattened anyway. And of the ones who did, few would hit the bear. It takes training to be able to use a handgun instantly and effectively, and nobody who doesn't get paid to do so trains that well.

[hap]

DG
Where do you get off using reason?!? Bears are emotional issues and logic is off-limits!

I am in agreement with you in many ways... Right up to the paid for proficiency thoughts... I know far more individuals that shoot seriously and are NOT paid for maintaining their skills, that do so. I hunt and fish with a number of cops and many are simply borderline competent with a handgun. Annual certifications and such are no substitutions for gun looniness. One friend shoots a 500Smith and Wesson revolver better off the bench at 100 yards, than many I know can do with a rifle and irons. Under 2" groups!

My experiences differ from yours in a few ways. But I go out of my way to confront bears on a regular basis. I guided photo safaris for bears and many hunting trips. I know I have skinned over 100 bears. Two have died literally touching me and a few more have died trying. I am neither afraid of, nor disrespectful toward them. They are quick and powerful.

I also see and watch more bears in a year than most active outdoors folks will see in a lifetime. I have watched more than 100 different bears in a single week many times. Last fall I counted 26 Kodiak bears from one spot. ADF&G says there are only 150 bears in the whole unit I saw them in, BTW, and I was looking at a tiny portion of the whole unit.

Right now your chances of having an AK bear problem are greater than they have ever been. More bears and more pressure on them coupled with a paradigm shift in attitude where those in charge of the assylum believe we can all just get along. It ain't workin'! We have had several maulings so far this year including a couple last week.

I seldom carry anything. Bears have lousy poker faces. A few pointers... Most charges are bluffs. Noisey bears do NOT charge. Back out before they get quiet! Posturing, standing on hind legs, hackles raised and ears up or out are good signs. Pacing with ears back and hackles down are very bad signs; leave now! I have been bluff-charged many times to what most would consider ridiculously short range. Because the bears showed they were just nervous they got away with it. Had they put ears back it would have been very different.

As to carrying in nat'l parks, check out this information http://www.nraila.org/news/read/news....aspx?id=10651
for an update. Several important things happened this summer, especially the SCOTUS decision in Heller vs DC. The courts now hold we have a Right to self-protection and firearms ownership. That puts the fed ban on firearms into the unconstitutional range. You will soon be allowed to carry in parks, guaranteed. Contact your senator if you think it is a good idea...
art

[hap]

Mark
Having seen bear spray applied into the wind and because I have grave concerns for the mechanical aptitude of most folks i think more will get hurt by it than helped. I doubt it is even terribly effective against two-legged predators, a more common concern in my opinion.

I have seen two bears properly and liberally doused with spray. Neither situation was resolved by spray and more effective, and final, means were required.

I have seen a guy spray himself directly in the eyes in his fear. I have seen people "spraying" a bear just walking by... at about 75 yards. I have seen a guy get shot in the small of the back with a half-empty canister that went off in his fanny pack. The blisters extended down the insides of his thighs and included sensitive scrotal tissues!
Firearms or actually using your wits is my thought.
art

[danbob]

I would like to add that if you carry something (anything) for protection from bears, cougars, or (the scary species) humans, you need to PRACTICE with it. This includes pepper spray! It's difficult to find practice pepper spray bottles, but they ARE made....they are used for police and firefighter training, and contain only water.

This happened a couple years back to my neighbor, and I posted it here on FAOL. If she had practiced in advance with the pepper spray, it likely never would have happened:
http://flyanglersonline.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9974

DANBOB

[Gnu Bee Flyer]

On one episode of Dog the bounty hunter, Dog's brother had his mace go off in the car. Imagine if that happened to you with bear pepper spray.

I live in hunting country. We have both a spring and a fall black bear hunting season. The bears for the most part are afraid of humans. In 1974 they created some no shooting areas near the provincial parks around some of the smaller lakes. It was found that the no shooting areas were the areas where bear problems became the worst. In the following years some of these areas were dropped as no shooting areas and made simply no hunting areas you can now legally fire off a gun there but cannot target animals. Once guns were again in the picture the bears became less of a problem once more.
It was the discharge of firearms that said to the bears Humans are dangerous leave them alone.

One of the very best improvements in this area was the invention of truly bearproof garbage cans.

Garbage bears are always the most dangerous.

[JohnScott]

Have heard all the jokes about recognizing bear scat, that Grizzly scat has bells in it, but what do you guys and gals use. Will definately carry bear spray, heard udat was the best. But would a whistle around your neck to blow everyonce in a while work or perhaps sound like a dinner bell. Being from florida, alligators and sharks don't bother me, been around them all my life, but just not familiar with Grizzs.

Shacked -

Seems like most of the discussion centered on the ( controversial ) carrying and use of bear spray. For what it's worth, I certainly respect hap's comments, and I still carry it as a matter of course.

Getting back to your question - yes, be prepared to make noise, loudly and frequently, when you are in places in bear country where you do not have good line of sight for some distance in all directions. A loud whistle blown regularly is recommended by a lot of folks.

Personally, I prefer the bear bells. Maybe not loud enough for all situations, especially around water and with any wind, but they do serve another important purpose ( one made by some one discussing bear spray earlier in this discussion ). That is, they remind ME that I am in that kind of habitat, and I need to be mindful and observant and take precautions that I won't need to deal with a confrontation, with or without my bear spray at ready.

My wife and I were hiking to the Grinnel Glacier out of Many Glacier at Glacier National Park a few years ago. Bear scat, quite fresh, on the trail at regular intervals. On the way down, to make a longer story shorter, we became aware from some other folks that a grizzly had been on a course to cross the trail we were on just about the time we reached that intersecting point. It turned and headed back up the hill when it heard the bear bells we were using - at least that was their impression and what they told us. They were in position to have a pretty good impression of what had happened.

John