Crash Course

[manhex]

Hello everyone, my name is John. Yesterday was my first time on a river fly fishing. Im not new to the sport, I've been fly fishing for blue gill since I could stand, but yesterday I found out that fishing for rainbows on a fast flowing river was a totally different critter all together. Anyone can drop a popper on the blue gill beds and catch fish all day long, but yesterday I didn't catch a single thing. It was then I realized that even though I know how to fly fish, I don't know how to fly fish. To be honest I grew up a bass fisherman, and so far no fish is more fun to catch than the almighty largemouth. I grew up in Illinois, where trout was something you could only find at the grocery store. Bass however where everywhere. Now I live in Wyoming, which is supposed to be a good state for fly fishing. I'm sure it is, I just don't know the first thing about it. I was excited, I got out of my truck and walked down the bank (keeping my distance as not to scare the fish) found what i thought was a good spot, and waded out (slowly). It was there I began to fish. I tried every type of water and lie I could find, moving from spot to spot after giving it about 25 mins per place. Tried casting upstream downstream. No fish. I tried almost every fly in my arsenal from mayflies to horseflies to wooly buggers etc. Wet flies and dry flies. Heck I even threw out every bug that landed on my arm at one point or another. I think my biggest problem was presentation. I just didn't know how to present my fly to the fish. In still water with pan fish its easy, give it a couple tugs and whala FISH! On the river however it just kept getting away from me. I wondered how the fish would every see my fly with it shooting down the river so fast. I barely had time to cast before my fly ended up at max distance only to cast again. (I can cast about 40 feet without getting sloppy). I dont know if thats normal eaither. So please my guru friends. Help this newbie, find his way to the catch of the day. I will be trying again tonight, I will catch fish if it kills me.

[alra195]

manhex,

Welcome aboard. The link below would be a good begining and you can probably breeze through some of the most basic stiff if you think you're up to speed on a specific topic.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/101/

You'll also find a plethora of other information relevant to moving water fishing at other places on the board so feel free to explore the site and dig away at what you think would help. Best advice I could give you at this point would be to practice your casting and learn to mend inorder to get the best presentation for the fly your presenting. I'd also try and gets some local information regarding the type of bugs present in your local streams. If you've got a fly shop near by they can most likely help you with the bug side of the problem.

Keep at it, don't get discouraged, somedays they just arn't as interested as in others. Remember the old saw "a bad day fishing is better than... " you can fill in the blank.

[Wild One]

It is interesting to see the difference that location and species can have on an angler!
I cut my teeth and grew up fishing streams for trout just like you described for about 10 years. Moving out to the midwest and fishing for bluegill and bass has been a big curve ball for me. I can definitely relate to what you're talking about!

Here are a couple of my initial thoughts that might start you in a good direction.
*If you're fishing a river that has an abundance of natural food, your flies and presentation has to be spot on. And I mean exactly spot on perfect 95% of the time. (the other 5% you just get lucky)
*If you're fishing a river where fish rely on terrestrial activity for a lot of their food source you can generally get away with tossing any buggy looking dry fly. Think skinny water and small spring creeks here.
*Fish pocket water!! It sounds like you already are with this line: "On the river however it just kept getting away from me. I wondered how the fish would every see my fly with it shooting down the river so fast..." Use this to your advantage. The good thing is that the fish have less time to react to your offering. If it is close to what they're looking for, they better eat it or else miss out on precious nutrition. (as opposed to fishing still water for gills and bass where the fish have time to call their doctor in to inspect the fly with a microscope, take cultures, run a blood and DNA test before deciding whether to eat it or not).
*If you do happen to be fishing s deep river you'd better use tungsten beads and/or split shot to get you nymph down to where the fish are.
*Don't be afraid to go small!! If you're used to fishing for bass and bluegill think one or 2 hook sizes smaller than your initial thought would be (almost all of my trout nymphs are smaller than a 12 with most being a 16).

Hope that helps. PM me if you're looking for longer explanations

[manhex]

(as opposed to fishing still water for gills and bass where the fish have time to call their doctor in to inspect the fly with a microscope, take cultures, run a blood and DNA test before deciding whether to eat it or not).

Well since you provided such informative advice, I think its only fair that we trade .

Bluegill (the easiest fish to catch ever): I think the biggest thing is FIND THE BEDS (YOU CANT MISS EM)!!! Look for a spot thats about 1' to 2' deep and is covered in craters. If the craters are more spread out and there are only 2 or 3 and the fish seem to be bigger then there is a good chance your looking at red ear beds. I would They are there all summer if you want to catch blue gill you gotta find the beds! Be aware of the variation of bluegill though. If they are more circular in shape and have a bright yellow belly thats the kind you want. I wouldn't waste time on hybrids. They are usually never big enough to do anything with. If the bluegill are just looking at your fly and examining it (same with bass) then your not presenting it right. Heres what i mean by that. Ive found the best fly for bluegill is and will always be a green or white popper (chartruse or red tail is best but if you dont have poppers handy dry flies work). Land it on top of the beds and jiggle it about once every 3-5 seconds (make sure you make a light pop) and watch what happens. Sometimes its hilarious.

In my experience there are 2 ways to catch blue gill.

1. Feed them
or
2. Tick them off.

Number 2 is the fun option in my opinion. All you need is a streamer. Blue gills and red ear are extremely territorial. Just lead your streamer through thier territory and they will always try to kill it. (This works for bass too during spawning season but I wouldnt use dry flies for Bass, they hit the surface every once in a while but most of thier feeding takes place under water can't top a carolina rigged weedless worm for bass)

Anyway thanks for the Help, i'll give it another go and hopefully i catch me some rainbows.

[peregrines]

Alra and Wild One have given you good tips...

Answering some of these Q's might help us give more info..

Do you see any activity on the surface (trout rising)?
How deep is the water you are fishing?
How wide is the river/stream?
Are there any slow stretches or pools?
Any spots with undercut banks, or overhanging tree branches that offer shade?
How deep are you wading?-- (if your up to your knees on a small stretch of fast water you could be standing where you should be fishing)

A key to getting trout to hit is having a drag free float--- it should be floating along at the same speed as bubbles, leaves etc, and not leaving a wake. Learning how to mend line will be a huge help. Learning how to throw a "reach cast" is easy, as are pile casts and "s casts" all types of casts to allow your fly to get more drag free floating distance. You can google them to find youtube vids or go to a site like www.sexyloops.com or use the search function here on FAOL for write ups.

It sounds like the water you're fishing in is fast water, so expect to get short drifts of 1-3 feet and pick up and cast again. If the water you're casting to (not standing) is knee to waist deep, look for current seams, foam lines, and braids or back eddies behind or in front of rocks--- places where a trout can hold without fighting current, and pick off stuff as it tumbles by. An Elk Hair Caddis, Trude or Wulff size 14 or 16 would be a good choice since they float high and are easy to see. You may well find that 40' casts are too long to get a drag free drift in such fast water. Try fishing 20' or even shorter, cast picking spots-- a couple casts along the near side of a rock, a couple more to the far side lifting and laying out the next cast without having to false cast/backcast, and move upstream a few steps for the next target. Look for spots to cast to... "if i were a trout" thing. You can cover the same water with these flies on the way back downstream, or switch to a heavily weighted black stoneyfly nymph.

If it's deep fast water, trout are likely to be out of the main current, or holding in a hole on the bottom. Fish dries right along the bank, or in the first current seam near shore. Try some casts upstream from you along the nearside bank, short casts at first, and lengthening them to cover more water (so you don't cast over nearby fish). Try hitting the far bank if you can too if you can reach it, and mend quickly to get a drag free drift. You could also try swinging a weighted wet or bugger by casting slightly upstream and across into the main current and quickly mending to let it sink and letting it swing in the current downstream below you.

An assortment of basic trout flies you probably have:

EHC, and some Trudes or Wulffs 14, and maybe an Orange Stimulator 12 for fast water
Parachute Adams 14 16 18- for slower water
Grasshopper- 10 for throwing along the banks, and slower water stretches
BH Black Wooly Buggers 8 for pools and slow deeper stretches
Sculpin- weighted Muddler 10, Black Marabou Muddler 6 pools and slower deeper stretches
Nymphs can be tough to fish at first, but a BH Prince 12, BH Pheasant Tail 16 are good ones.

Perhaps an easier to fish alternative to nymphs at first would be a Partridge and Orange Soft Hackle 16 and a Deep Sparkle Pupa (weighted in Green in 14) These you can cast down stream and across and let them swing below you. They're good searching flies, and look a lot like emerging mayflies (P & O) and caddis (both).

Your local shop could also give you great advice about specific patterns, and it may be worth it to get a guide for a day or 1/2 day to help you learn holding water, mending etc. Be clear upfront that you want some one to teach stuff like reading water, mending, reach casts and basic nymphing while wading, as opposed to catching from a drift boat. It will really help the learning curve.

good luck!

peregrines

[JohnScott]

manhex -

Welcome and greetings from SE Idaho.

If you like to read, I would suggest starting with "Reading The Water - A Fly Fisher's Handbook for Finding Trout in All Types of Water" by Dave Hughes. Next would be Dave Whitlock's "Guide to Aquatic Trout Foods - Second Edition."

As a practical matter, I think it is much easier to learn trout fishing on SMALL creeks and streams than on BIG rivers. Little fish in small creeks do all the things the big guys do, so when you figure out what they are up to, it is relatively easy to transfer that knowledge to big fish in big rivers. With the caveat that small stream fish are really aggressive and rarely selective, and big river fish can be pretty picky.

It's not clear if you were casting 40' - sounds like you were actually casting something less than that. If a novice is out there casting 40' in fast water .....

Also, there is a bunch of stuff on this website that will help you find more questions to ask. Fire away.

John

[manhex]

Well I went fishing last night and gave it another shot. I followed your advice and I picked spots that where more in line with your criteria. I located some pretty nice fishing spots on the river. I ended up catching 3 fish, a 4 inch, 10 inch, and 17 inch rainbow trout on a Green Stimulator 12 (I didnt have orange in my collection). Thanks for the help guys you saved me a lot of crap and I am in your debt . JohnScott thanks for the advice on the book i think i will take it. I've known how to cast correctly (Even though it is a never ending learning process and there is always room for improvement) for some time now. I said i "Can" cast 40' not I did sorry for not being clear on that. Only time I really need that kind of distance is fishing largemouth with a good distance to cover (many times :/, Bass on a flyrod is fun). I would say i never exceeded 20' on the river. I used that as more of a way of letting you guys know it was not so much my cast but everything else (not being cocky, I just cast by the book and wanted help on the other aspects.) Even though I am having a hard time with the reach cast. I read about it and watched a video i practiced it in an open field before i hit the river, (and i got it to work) but my fly still seems to lag behind so i get a wake, especially when i land in still water between the seams. I guess i have some kinks to work out. I think i may just get a guide for a 1/2 day. One thing is ceartain, I am hooked on river fishing.

[alra195]

John,

Well I'm delighted to hear you had some success! Good job. Sounds like your working on or at least recognizing the need to mend. Practice and experience will help you work that out. Certainly no harm in getting the assistance of a guide if you able, but I'm glad you're having some moving water success. Well done!

[peregrines]

Manhex,

Congrats on your fish! That's great to hear, and you must be psyched. Sounds like you're off to the races.

best,

peregrines

[Big Bad Wulff]

Some of those that trout fish only would have problems catching warm-water fish so don't feel bad. It took me many days to learn how to catch bass when I could catch trout easily.