Elimination of trout from the Elk River in TN?

[Rawthumb]

The TVA recently published for comment proposed changes in operation of the Tim's Ford Dam. The changes are intended to warm the water downstream from the dam for the benefit of darters and mussels listed under the ESA and some other species. As a tailwater stream, it is cool enough for trout only so many miles downstream.

http://www.tva.gov/environment/repor...sford2/dea.pdf

[DG]

Just some thoughts. Was it a trout stream BEFORE the dam was built? Are the trout there native fish, or are they introduced species (browns, bows, for instance). Were the endangered fish present in the river before the dam went up?

I believe that an endangered species, no matter how ugly or useless we might think it is, has a right to exist, and we have no right to remove it from the Earth. There's plenty of trout, in places mother nature put them, and in places we put them. But when the last of a unique thing is gone, it's gone.

[JohnScott]

DG -

The report is 98 pages, in total, but with so many graphs, tables, appendices, etc. that it is probably only 50 pages of content, a lot of which has to do with matters totally unrelated to the fisheries aspects of the report.

That is still too much for me to digest readily, so I read some of the pertinent parts and scanned a bunch of what did not seem all that relevant to the trout question.

Trout are not native to the Elk. It is a "put and take" fishery stocked by Tennessee Fish and Game that came into being after the Tims Ford Dam was built, creating the tailwater that is the subject of the report.

There are actually six or seven different NATIVE aquatic critters, native to the Elk River, that have already been listed as endangered or are considered candidates for listing. In fact, the Elk is the sole remaining habitat for one of the listed endangered species, and maintenance of the tailwater as a trout fishery is incompatible with efforts to enhance the survival of that species in the section of the river ( about 15 miles below the dam, as I understood the report ) which comprises the trout fishery.

BUT - it does appear that they are seeking a solution which will NOT eliminate the trout fishery, if that is possible. Like I said above, I didn't try to read the whole thing word for word, but the tone of the report seeks to strike a balance between the native endangered or threatened species and the existence of a viable put and take trout fishery.

Hopefully, Jack Hise will take note of this thread and add his thoughts. Certainly, of all the members of the BB, he and a few of the other fellows from that immediate area, have the most at stake in the final outcome.

John

That having been said, I'm glad I'm in Idaho.

[Gnu Bee Flyer]

Just some thoughts. Was it a trout stream BEFORE the dam was built? Are the trout there native fish, or are they introduced species (browns, bows, for instance). Were the endangered fish present in the river before the dam went up?

I believe that an endangered species, no matter how ugly or useless we might think it is, has a right to exist, and we have no right to remove it from the Earth. There's plenty of trout, in places mother nature put them, and in places we put them. But when the last of a unique thing is gone, it's gone.

Much as I hate to agree with DG , In this case I have to.

[Jack Hise]

I fished the Elk at Tim's Ford Dam Wednesday. It had been stocked with Rainbows and Browns Tuesday. The water temp about 3' down was 63 degrees. They have since increased the release from 100 cfs to 165 cfs and are planning some short generation cycles.
Rhonda Page (Tim's Fly's & Lies, Lynchburg, TN 931 759 5058 ) has established contact with a person in the TWRA. She has asked us to check the water temps when fishing the Elk, especially from Ferris Creek to Old Dam Ford and pass them on to her. This streatch of the river is approx 6 miles down stream and has been very productive for those of us that wade. It also holds some fair sized hold over trout.
I'm sure that both the Middle Tennessee Fly Fishers and the Lynchburg Fly Fishing Club will be keeping a close eye on the river conditions.

As a side note. After months of releasing only 40 cfs from Normandy Dam into the Duck River the TVA uped the flow to 155 cfs for several hours last weekend and droped back to 88 cfs. I fished below the Dam Tuesday and was pleased to see the River runing cleaner and higher. The water temp at 3' was 64 degrees. I see that they are now releasing at 135 cfs.

[Rawthumb]

Just some thoughts. Was it a trout stream BEFORE the dam was built? Are the trout there native fish, or are they introduced species (browns, bows, for instance). Were the endangered fish present in the river before the dam went up?

I believe that an endangered species, no matter how ugly or useless we might think it is, has a right to exist, and we have no right to remove it from the Earth. There's plenty of trout, in places mother nature put them, and in places we put them. But when the last of a unique thing is gone, it's gone.

Before we get carried away with this sentiment about some stream in TN, you need to look at the big picture, including streams in CO, MT, and NM. There are many prize trout fisheries in each of the foregoing states, often with dams manager by the BOR. But for the impoundment and the steady supply of cold water, a lot of the streams would not be suitable for trout where they are today. For years, members of the Sierra Club has been advocating the breaching of the dam on the Bighorn to restore the stream to warm water conditions for the benefit of the native squawfish.

Does anyone seriously believe that the San Juan or the Taylor would be the fisheries that they are if they were not tailwaters?

Middle TN has limited trout fishing opportunities, and they exist only because of tailwater fisheries.

Generally, dams provide a lot of problems for fish, particularly the anadromous species. But for trout, they can be the lifesource, and if you study the actions of TU, the FFF and other groups, you will see that they often oppose dam operations in the Pac NW and support retention of dams in other places. In most instances, the temp of the water coming out is too high and the fight is to get the Corps or other operators to release cooler water (this is very true of the dams in the Snake and Columbia River systems). Ironically, in this one, the water coming out is too cold and they are trying to get it warmer.

[Rawthumb]

Jack:

Do you know whether there are streamborn fish in there?

There are some big browns in the holes several miles downstream from the dam. So while I can't say if there are breeding populations in the stream, there are fish that are surviving long enough to get over 20 inches.

[Rawthumb]

Significantly, the Elk is only cold enough about 12 miles to support trout. As far as the science of the matter goes, there are several unanswered questions that should be pondered before blindly following TVA and the USFWS:

1. What evidence is there that the darter and the mussels were in the 12 mile stretch that is currently habitable by trout?

2. After the proposed changes are implemented, how far downstream will the Elk be habitable for trout?

3. What are the probabilities that raising the temp will provide habit or any other type of improvement in the only 12 miles of the stream that is habitable for trout? How much additional habitat will the other critters have that they do not have now?

[Jack Hise]

Don't know about streamborn trout. I'll do some checking though.

Yes there some 20+" fish below Ferris Creek. Both Browns and Rainbows.

RT, If you should come up to fish the Elk shoot me a PM. Maybe we can wet a line togather.

[rons81]

Information from the Cumberland Chapter TU.

Attention Elk River Fisherman: TWRA Contact Information

TENNESSEE WILDLIFE RESOURCES AGENCY
Frank Fiss
Aquatic Conservation Coordinator


ttp://files.e2ma.net/18348/assets/docs/tims_ford_draft_ea_twra_comments.pdf