Problem Casting Big Flies

[K3's]

I am into my first foray pike fishing, and am having some casting issues that i need some help with. My set-up is an 8wt fast action, WF8F line and 8ft 30lb leader. I am throwing 1/0 to 3/0 flies that several rabbits perished for, thus not only large hooks but also the flies get very soppy and heavy when wet. I have trouble forming a controlling my loops as the weight of the fly keeps bringing my fly line down on my backcast causing all sorts of issues, with big tailing loops and the mess that comes with that and also immeninet bodily harm to myself......I think I need a helmet and a kevlar vest I have tried slowing down my rythm and opening up the loop, but the cast feels more like a 'lob' than anything else.....any pointers??

[shorthaul]

K3

Try to see why you're getting a tailing loop---maybe you aren't letting the back cast straighten out because the fly has so much air resistance that it goes slow in the air. Possibly you are trying to cast hard right off the backcast without stroking and accelerating. With a fly that big, you should need a double haul to get things going. Th first thing i would do is get the bigger rod out---the 6" long, bushy musky flies that i tied needed a 12 wt to get some control of the situation.

Its hard to tell without seeing whats going on.

Mike

[Bamboozle]

K3:

Without seeing your casts I'll leave the casting tips to the experts except to say a slight haul on the forward and backcasts at times helps me to deal with fly-weight issues.

Another thing that exacerbates things for me with heavy or wind resistant flies is leader length. If the pike aren't real spooky a shorter leader may help OR a shorter knotted tapered leader that starts out with some even heavier material in the butt section. Another option albeit with some expense involved is checking out a Rio Clouser line. They have an aggressive front taper specifically designed for throwing heavy flies. I have one on my 8wt bass outfit & I love it!

[Randy58]

Here's my two cents: I always try casting the smallest-sized flies that I think will work for my fishing situation. Also, when casting heavy flies, unless I'm making a short cast and my fly line is unrolling slowly, I do not let my back cast straighten out. If I'm making longer cast and my back cast is unrolling fast, I begin my forward cast before my back cast unrolls. If I don't the line will fall and I'll probably get hit by the fly. Also keep in my that when a heavy fly unrolls it will probably bounce or snap - almost like when you release a stretched rubber band - and this will add slack to the line and weaken your cast.

(BTW: Both Jim Gunderson and Brian O'Keefe, two great tournament casters, begin their forward cast before their back cast unrolls.)

For me one of the biggest challenges making a long cast with a heavy fly is casting with enough power to keep my loop tight, but not with too much power so that my fly bounces considerably. Because I find its almost impossible to cast without any bounce, I have another reason for starting my cast before the line unrolls.

Finally, you might be inadvertingly lowering your rod tip from the target line. One easy way to avoid this is to cast like Lefty Kreh, with your right foot - assuming your right-handed -
well behind your left.

If you cast with your right foot not so far back - more like Joan Wulff - try to cast without pulling your elbow back. In other words, your back cast should be a lifting - not pulling -the rod up and back.

Finally, I always wear a broad-brimmed hat and sunglasses. Wind can wreck even the perfect cast.

Randy

Randy

[William Fitzgerald]

I have fished for pike and musky years ago with (shame) bait. Fly fished all my life and then Larry Dahlberg came along. Now its a 9 ft 8 wgt a short 15 pd nylon coated steel leader with a twist wrap loop at the fly and leader end. Heat the nylon with a lighter and fish. The flys are big -- usually tube flies with less weight smaller hooks. Google Dahlberg "Tube Flys" and "Snake Flies" for large easy casting flys with less weight. BILL

[K3's]

Randy- You brought up a great point on what is happening that i failed to mention..... I am getting a lot of bounce/snap with the heavy fly that is giving me some timing issues.....this is where i tried to slow things down to reduce that amount of bounce, but then the issue of generating enough line speed to keep the fly line up on the backcast......

[Randy58]

Some good points made by others.

BTW again: I don't fish for Pike, but when I fish below the surface for Stripers, I use a sinking line and an unweighted fly.

Not only is there more of a chance of hooking yourself with a weighted fly, if one hits your rod tip at high speed it can break your rod.

And yes, keep your back cast high.

Anyway, as they say: Take what you like and leave the rest.

Randy

[rizeye]

when using the big bunny leeches, 6" - 8", i find using something heavier than an 8wt helps. my 1st time was with an 8wt and i was able to only throw short casts, especially into the wind; why is every direction into the wind when fishing? so i bout a stiffer 9wt and can cast much better, but a 10wt wouldn't hurt either.

[Big Bad Wulff]

If your flies get are getting sopping wet, you might try shaking them off a bit before you cast. That helps with my sopping-wet size 6 beadhead wooley buggers and my 4wt rod.

[Clay]

Jason Borger was talking about a circle cast that would work well. Instead of a straight overhead type of backcast, the backcast is off to one side. Then the forward cast doesn't come straight over your head either, it is still to one side but more verticle than the backcast. This eliptical type of cast keeps a constant tension on the line like a spey cast would, it also doesn't go over your head so that you don't have to wear a helmet and be afraid of sticking yourself with the big fly. I tried to find a video of something close on youtube, but I was unsuccessful.

Rick