Epoxies

[PanFisher]

Just an addition to the 20 minute epoxy thread - Has anybody noticed the changes in epoxy these days.

I started rod building in the late 70's - the rules were easy. The slower it dried the better the bond. Now I look in the store and I find specifications on the epoxy including bond strength. My slow dry epoxy I have been using for years does not have the bond strength that the new 5-minute stuff has.

This brings up the issue of gluing on the tiptop. The old (low bond strength) 5-minute epoxy was perfect for this in Arizona (We don't use ferrule cement it melts in the heat and the tiptop falls off while fishing!).

There are times a tiptop may need to be replaced. The old low bond 5-minute epoxy bond could be heated and the tiptop could still be removed if necessary. Is that still so?

What do others use to glue on tiptops besides ferrule cement or hot melt glue?

[TampaJim]

The amount of time it takes an epoxy to cure, has no bearing on strength of bond.

Flexcoat 5-Minute Epoxy is PERFECT for gluing tip-tops. It will flash with applied heat and you can remove the top if needed.

Here in Tampa, we have the same issues trying to use a typical "glue stick" as supplied within the rod building industry. Higher temp glue sticks WILL work, however. They can be found at hobby shops.

Just for your benefit ... I build professionally, full-time. I use 5-Minute for tips and polyurethane arbor installations into reel seats along with Rod Bond for installation of grips and reel seats onto blanks and for gluing cork rings.

Hope this helps.

Just an addition to the 20 minute epoxy thread - Has anybody noticed the changes in epoxy these days.

I started rod building in the late 70's - the rules were easy. The slower it dried the better the bond. Now I look in the store and I find specifications on the epoxy including bond strength. My slow dry epoxy I have been using for years does not have the bond strength that the new 5-minute stuff has.

This brings up the issue of gluing on the tiptop. The old (low bond strength) 5-minute epoxy was perfect for this in Arizona (We don't use ferrule cement it melts in the heat and the tiptop falls off while fishing!).

There are times a tiptop may need to be replaced. The old low bond 5-minute epoxy bond could be heated and the tiptop could still be removed if necessary. Is that still so?

What do others use to glue on tiptops besides ferrule cement or hot melt glue?

[William Fitzgerald]

It must get awfull hot where you live--I use FlexCoat tip top and it melts at 200 deg F, never had a problem in warm climates. I do carry a spare stick in the RV BILL

[PanFisher]

It must get awful hot where you live--I use FlexCoat tip top and it melts at 200 deg F, never had a problem in warm climates. I do carry a spare stick in the RV BILL

Good to hear the 5 minute epoxy can still flash with applied heat. That's what I've still been using.

Hot melt glue that melts at 200 deg, I was trained back in the 70's by people who knew what they were doing but this kind of stuff didn't exist back then. When I moved to Arizona back in 91 every tiptop on every rod I owned had to be glued back on - thats when I went to the 5 minute epoxy.

It was a chemist who stated the slower it cured the harder the bond - likely that was true back then. It wasn't until I saw the bond strength specifications that I got concerned about replacing a tiptop if I needed to.

Haven't tried the "Rod Bond" I've still been using the Flex Coat Rod Builders epoxy for reel seats and grips. I've heard of it just haven't tried it yet. I may need to order some with my next purchase.

Sounds like I may need to modernize myself a bit.

Thanks for the responses.

[hap]

TampaJim
After lots of years researching wood finishes and after spending lots of time with chemists from most epoxy manufacturers I have to disagree with the notion that cure time does not affect strength.

There are many aspects to the strength of the cured product and the adhesion strength in many cases is not a big issue. Add properties like hardness, brittleness, elasticity, shock strength, hysteresis and many others to the mix and there are huge differences in epoxies.

In general, slower setting epoxies will be stronger in most strength categories and the range is very big. Slow-cure blends accelerated by heat are compromised much like fast cure blends without the heat.

It is quite possible misimpressions can be developed by using specific blends that are then tested outside their design parameters.

Most of my emphasis was on using epoxy as a base coat waterproofing finish for gunstocks and research was carried on for many years with many products from many companies. Hundreds upon hundreds of finished walnut cubes were tortured in every way imagineable... And many no sane man would consider!
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[William Fitzgerald]

HAP--the first thing I do to those ugly walnut gunstocks is scrape off the finish and give it a couple coats of LIN-SPEED oil finish. Couldnt think of some kind of epoxy on walnut--heavens forbid.

I read the Flex-Coat tip top Adhesive card again and it states will maintain a high strength bond in all tempertures and retains flexibility when cold. Retains the bond even under extreme heat such as closed cars on summer days--over 200 degees F BILL

[hap]

Bill
Do not want to sidetrack this thread too badly, but epoxy as a sealer coat on a gunstock with oil on top looks just like oil, but with more depth. It does not look like the thick factory goop-job!

On bigleaf maple it looks pretty good...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a34...6portsides.jpg

First place I look for the best advice is ads and then I look at the spiel the manufacturer came up with on the package to sell it! Actually, you will note very relative terms are used there. The techs and engineers will give you the straight answers if you can get past the telephone blockers most companies use....
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