Expensive rods VS cheaper rods

[Morneb]

Hi guys and girls

There have been alot of debate going on on some of our local forums (in SA) lately about which brand is best. When someone new ask what rod to get the answer always seems to be SAge, TFO etc, even though the guy might have stated that he has R/$ X to spent. This then normaly ends in a heated discussion about "Elitist", snobs, etc.

Now I personally have nothing against the more expensive rods, and have not considered buying an expensive rod (probably because I can t afford one) and also because im not convinced that an expensive rod will make me such a better FF or make me enjoy my experience that much more to make it worthwhille getting one.

Locally the guys who own one will tell you that you just need to fish with one, and you will never look back as there is nothing to compare it too. These same guys will then go on a rant when someone would say something bad about the expensive rods, but would not hesitate to rip off the cheaper ones. I guess at the end it boils down to what you can afford.

Anyway just wanted to know if you guys experience the same thing as here, and what your oppinions are.

PS. If someone wants to sent me a SAGE to convince me otherwise please feel free to do so

[tailingloop]

My favorite brand is the one I am fishing.


Facts: I have or have had 37 fly rods ranging from 3wt to 12wt from 11 different brands. I have fished and cast even more rods. These rods have had manufacturer's retail values ranging from $20 to $650 USD. I can be found on local waters with a $60 rod and a $500 rod both rigged and in use as I switch between them. I have liked most of them, sold the others that I did not like as much.

My opinion: The cost of a rod or a label doesn't mean anything to me. I do not feel that there is any intrinsic superiority or inferiority based on the name on the rod or the price, the more money usually means a product with better components and some improved in performance, but not always. My more expensive rods usually perform better than my less expensive rods, but the difference is not linear with respect to cost, and is some cases those differences only come into play in limited situations.

And other people can have opinions different than mine, or even declare that I am wrong in my preferences, but that is their opinion and I do not have to take owner ship. Most people out there in internet land don't know me well enough judge whether my opinion is based on experience or speculation. Nor do I know most people out there well enough to make the same judgment of their opinions.

I have learned lots of things by listening to other's opinions though, whether I agree with them or not.

[sagefisher]

I am not an expert caster, but I know what I like in a rod, how it fits my style of casting. For about five years, I was the education coordinator for one of the fly fishing clubs I belong to. As such I scheduled many casting classes, from beginning thru intermediate.

People would show up for casting classes with their outfits and our instructors would spend hours working with them. I assisted in almost all of the classes. That means I was able to cast a lot of different fly rods. From well known brands to some that are totally unknown.

Oh what a difference there is in fly rods. We would have students who just couldn?t cast 20 feet. I would take the rod and I don?t blame them for not being able to, the rods were horrible to cast. After seeing this a few times, I asked our club to start buying some low end but decent casting rods for our members to use. If they were brand new to the sport they could use our rods to get the hang of casting, or when I ran into one of those worthless rods, I would hand the person one of the club rods and then the light would go on in their head, yes, they could actually cast a fly.

Expensive rods like Sage, yes that is my favorite, and Winston and Thomas & Thomas almost always cast very well. There are some Sage rods that do not fit my casting style, and as such I don?t own one of them. But, their rods cast very well. As they should. They spend a lot of money on research in constructing the rods, in the materials they use and how those materials are created, and in testing the rods to fine tune them.

Lower end rod companies, for the most part, can not afford to do that so they order blanks that are for the lack of a better word, generic in nature. That is not to say they are bad rods, some of them are very nice, but others are not.

Always buy within your limits, but if you can afford a high end rod, why not buy it? If you can?t then test the rods that fall within your price range and find one that fits your style of casting.

I firmly believe that because of companies like Sage and Winston and Thomas & Thomas, the other rod companies have had to improve their quality of rods and improve their warranties to compete with the large named companies. That means the fly fishers are the winners. There are more decent rods available for us to buy than ever before.

Enjoy that and get our there and cast.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[flybinder]

Tailingloop, well said and an interesting post, Morneb!
THIS will probably get those with the so called "Shack Nasties", something to rally around! (then, too, maybe we can finally find out,why people GET these so called "nasties" to begin with, because if it's JUST from not being able to fish, man I'd hate to be living THAT kind of life!).
Anyhoo, like you mentioned, I've also fished more rods than I can remember and sad to say, I own enough rods,still..... to where I can't remember exactly what all brands I DO own, currently.

But I DO KNOW, what I LIKE and what I like to fish with. What I paid for it, or if it's "THE NEWEST HAVE TO HAVE", or not I could care less. Sure, I love the feel of a nice rod in my hand. I love to feel a rod load and release, the way I feel a rod should do both things. ALL of that, to me, is a part of this obsession. But, so is the feel of the stream against my legs, the pressure of current as I wade a stream and those feelings don't come from Sage, or, from Thomas & Thomas.
Out of the rods I own, I fish with about 3 of them, 99% of the time..................
One's, one I built ten years ago. Another, is a little 7' 6" 4wt. with not a single sign of anything on the blank, that tells me who made it or where it came from. Another, is a Green River, given to me as a gift, by my fish'in pard of 30 plus years.
I've got, at that time ten years ago, maybe $45.00 in the one I built. The little "no-namer" 4wt. I won in a poker game and Green Rivers are custom, hand made rods, still in production the last time I checked their website, but I can't afford the model I have, if I had to replace it I know.

I'd gladly give up, all my other rods before I'd relinquish any one of these three.
I don't care what my rods costs. That's why, when we have these rod fights start and I feel I want to answer a question on something, I always try my best to only say, "I HAVE a so and so and this is why I like it", but that's only MY opinion"!
I hope, I've NEVER told anyone, "You'll fish better, cast better, your hair will grow back...........IF ONLY you buy a so and so rod, like the ONE I OWN!"
"Well, you won't KNOW.......how great the new "gotta-haves" are, until you cast one, but when you dooooooo!!!"
Sorry, but I don't buy into that scenario, either.
Please don't tell me "I won't know, until". Because YOU have NO idea, what I may consider a "nice stick". YOU, don't know, how I CAST. HOW I fish, or what I may even consider "distance".
If someone truly enjoys being able to throw an entire fly line, great!! I support anything, that someone else enjoys, as their part of the world of fly fishing.
But I DON'T care to do it, so please quit telling me "What I'm MISSING by not buying YOUR brand of rod and line.
Hmmmmmmm, That's nice. If YOU can throw 90 feet of fly line, I'm sure it comes in quite handy, every single time YOU fish! So, it's a good thing, you learned how to do it, huh!?
But the truth be known....I wish MORE, that my eyesight was GOOD ENOUGH to even SEE my #18 or #20 fly and more importantly, what it's DOING............ after I throw it out there, in moving water, 90 plus feet from where I'm standing?!?

I'm not talking about folks that "just want to throw a 90' cast, just for fun or for a "personal best". I think, that's kinda neat, that you HAVE that kind of goal it'll make you practice your casting more often and make you a better, all around caster, in the end. But, I'm speaking of those, that have TOLD ME (or, members here), "WHY I/we NEED to buy this certain line, or we'll never enjoy fly fishing again".

BUY the rod, line, reel and bottle of wine, YOU like the looks ad feel of, and that won't break your personal bank.
Learn to use, what you buy, as best as you possibly can.
ENJOY, fly fishing, for what it ma come to mean to you. NOT what others tell you, you should be getting out of it.

[nighthawk]

Try one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-EAGLE-CLAW-...742.m153.l1262

For $28.10 including shipping you cannot go wrong. I have bought two of these, a 6'6" 4wt and 7' 6wt, off of Gremlin Fishing and love the rods. They are a slow action rod, cast a lot like bamboo, with plenty of backbone, very forgiving too. Gremlin fishing has given me top notch service too.

Click the link "visit store Gremlin Fishing" to check out all the other rods that they have.

[Gnu Bee Flyer]

I said this on a previous post. I had a rod I thought was Ok. I wasn't that good a caster. I was still in the multiple wind knot stage. I Went to a fish in and cast a Winston. I loved it. I didn't know it was a mondo bux rod at the time. I even forgot to ask the owner what kind it was. I found out in chat that it was a winston and what type it was. Man I wanted that rod. I then lucked into a Middle of the road priced sage at a clearance sale when the flyshop closed its doors. Man it cast so similar to that Winston that I still can't tell the difference. I didn't even know that it was a sage at first cause I didn't look at the brand I looked at the price. I didn't even try the more expensive ones cause I couldn't afford them. I took both my 5wt rods to the park and realized that my original rod just wasn't working for me. The new sage just felt alive in my hands. I really cast better with the sage. I was just going to give my old rod away thinking what a piece of junk. One of my buddies who can really cast by the way, picked it up and tried it. He said Sweeeeeettt rod. I said really? Thinking perhaps he was kidding. Nope he really liked it. Another friend who was there at the time tried it out and liked it as well. I said if you guys like it you can have it. They fought over who would get it finally decided by rock paper sissors.
I had just the two 5 wts so when JC wrote his article about the SA combo in wal mart I bought one of those for my son. I really liked the way it casts so I got one for myself. I like it as well as the sage and it is only a $70.00 combo line, backing, reel, leader and 4 flies.
I still want that winston but sure don't need it.

I guess some rods just don't fit you and some do. Price is not the criteria to go by.

Did I mention I still want that winston?

Nighthawk I checked out that Gremlin rod.

The rod is now on sale for $17.95 Seemed like a good deal but The shipping on a $18.00 rod to canada is $23.00 . I have had tons of stuff shipped x the border and trust me on this one my friend that shipping is a rip-off.
For example Cabellas sent me spinning rod and reel for $4.00 shipping.

[Gringo2]

Please note my temporary change uf usename from 'gringo.'

The idea of cost vs value is always contentious, and provokes interesting argument.

Here in Oz a while ago a panel of 'experts' pooled a heap of (disguised) #6 weight rods across all price brackets and blind tested them with a range of experts and then scored the results, based entirely on handling characteristics.

While they attempted to be as impartial and scientific as they could, there was the inevitable criticism that their statistical analyses were flawed. Nevertheless the resulting article is an interesting read and highlights a couple of surprises - a couple of top range rods were rated lower than some cheapies, and a couple of cheapies that rated very well.

Overall though, the general trend was that the higher rated rods were the dearer ones, and the cheaper rods generally rated lower.

While the statistitians argue over the validity of the supposed 'blind testing' I think it was an interesting experiment that showed something we all feared: That the more you spend, the better the rod casts.

Of course, do you need that rod or to cast that distance? Probably not, and human variables will dictate that a decent caster with a cheap rod will easily outcast me with a prime rod.


Still, if you want a particular expensive rod, and can afford it, it is definitely worth it to you at least, whether it catches more fish or not!

[nighthawk]

I said this on a previous post. I had a rod I thought was Ok. I wasn't that good a caster. I was still in the multiple wind knot stage. I Went to a fish in and cast a Winston. I loved it. I didn't know it was a mondo bux rod at the time. I even forgot to ask the owner what kind it was. I found out in chat that it was a winston and what type it was. Man I wanted that rod. I then lucked into a Middle of the road priced sage at a clearance sale when the flyshop closed its doors. Man it cast so similar to that Winston that I still can't tell the difference. I didn't even know that it was a sage at first cause I didn't look at the brand I looked at the price. I didn't even try the more expensive ones cause I couldn't afford them. I took both my 5wt rods to the park and realized that my original rod just wasn't working for me. The new sage just felt alive in my hands. I really cast better with the sage. I was just going to give my old rod away thinking what a piece of junk. One of my buddies who can really cast by the way, picked it up and tried it. He said Sweeeeeettt rod. I said really? Thinking perhaps he was kidding. Nope he really liked it. Another friend who was there at the time tried it out and liked it as well. I said if you guys like it you can have it. They fought over who would get it finally decided by rock paper sissors.
I had just the two 5 wts so when JC wrote his article about the SA combo in wal mart I bought one of those for my son. I really liked the way it casts so I got one for myself. I like it as well as the sage and it is only a $70.00 combo line, backing, reel, leader and 4 flies.
I still want that winston but sure don't need it.

I guess some rods just don't fit you and some do. Price is not the criteria to go by.

Did I mention I still want that winston?

Nighthawk I checked out that Gremlin rod.

The rod is now on sale for $17.95 Seemed like a good deal but The shipping on a $18.00 rod to canada is $23.00 . I have had tons of stuff shipped x the border and trust me on this one my friend that shipping is a rip-off.
For example Cabellas sent me spinning rod and reel for $4.00 shipping.

My bad. I was thinking as a U.S. citizen. His shipping is a little high for domestic but he was cheaper than any other dealer enough to offset the shipping in the U.S.A. I order a lot of stuff from Cabela's and did not think anyone could out do their packing until I ordered from Gremlin Fishing. Dang near bullet proof!

[Joe Valencic]

I have about 12 fly rods from 1wt to 8wt, and like flybinder, I fish 3 or 4 of them most of the time, and 2 of them 99% of the summer months when I fish for panfish (1wt and 3wt). Of the hand built (by me) rods and store bought, I prefer my hand made rods because they are fast actions. I have been told that my choices have been good, bad and everything in between, and none of the critics can fish any better that I do, so, IMO, their opinion is merely that...their opinion and nothing more.

Find something that fits well in your hand, is balanced, and has the length that works in the environment you will be fishing. Weight is also a consideration if you will fish all day. This is why some people own 2-3 rods of the same weight, just to fit certain environmental constraints.

Joe

[dleo6446]

Always and interesting topic to discuss. I like to find a rod that meets the needs of the person that is going to use it. It isn't necessarily always an expensive rod that will get the job done. Last year when one of the majors released their brand new technology in fly rods, I bought one of the blanks and built it out to their specifications. I was really impressed with its action. none of the 4 shops in town had one of these on their racks yet so I proceeded to visit one of the shops with my newly built rod. Everyone ooohed and ahhhd at it's feel and casting performance in the parking lot, but then one of the owners suggested a shootout with a couple of rods off the wall. Targets were set up and 3 different reels with different lines were selected and the shootout began. After about 30 or 40 minutes, we walked back inside and discussed our individual feelings about both of the rods and how they felt with really good lines on them. not more than 15 minutes into the discussion, everyone had agreed that the rod off the wall gave all the same performances of the new technology rod from the major rod maker. I won't mention the names of the rods that we used, but I will tell you that the $650 rod would be hard to justify when a rod that was less than $200 stood up in performance with it as far as parking lot casting goes. Everyone knows that is different than fishing a rod, but people that fish a lot can tell you how a parking lot cast would compare to fishing a rod. My bottom line is find a rod that works really well for you. If you look around you can find great performance in all levels of fly rods. Heck, one of my favorites to fish is a TFO Ticr 9' 5 wt, and I own a lot of rods that cost a lot more...(most of which I obtained in rod trades on bamboo).