Strike Indicators or not?

[Stowaway]

I do nymph quite a bit and usually use an indicator. I guess I don't see the difference with or without when it comes to currents. Usually, I place my indicator on my shock leader or just below it at the beginning of the leader. If you're fishing a floating line, with the indicator very close to the fly line, that leaves typically anywhere from 7-9' of leader. So if I remove the indicator, I still have the floating line subject to the current at the top of the water column.

So I guess, the way I fish, indicator or no indicator doesn't much matter unless your worried about the indicator actually spooking the fish.

I fish a wild trout stream quite often that holds mostly browns with some rainbows. Not big water at all. I have found that even during non-hatch periods, trout have rose to the indicator. Maybe they're spooked by it at times it's hard to tell.

Stow

[Grn Mt Man]

Learned to trout fish many years ago via my father-in-laws method, dare I say, rolling worms/corn along the bottom of the stream while split shot weighted. Started fly fishing about three years ago and started by nymphing on the bottom also while weighted. Then, the local fly shop owner where I do business told me that I'd catch more if I used indicators while nymphing. So, now, depending on the water conditions, it's either indicators, no indicators, bottom weighted, not weighted or a combination of some or all of the above. I think you have to adopt to the stream conditions and be flexible. I personally still like to fish without indicators; but, sometimes it's just not possible.

There is a time and a place for every technique. I don't think flyfishing is an "either/or" sport unless you want it to be. There are situations where a fly fished under an indicator will do better than without, and so on. The trick is to figure out when that is. That's what makes flyfishing so much fun.

I will say that for the first ~10 or 12 years I nymph fished I never used a yarn indicator. After that, I started using an indicator a lot. Fished properly, the technique is insanely deadly, sometimes almost too easy. So I will say that an indicator will work, even in complex currents, if fished and mended properly with the correct length of tippet and weight. If you don't adjust your length and weight to every drift you won't be as successful with this technique. Personally, I've just seen way too much success with this technique to pass it off as ineffective under all but special case situations.

BTW for the type of river you described my thought is that a dropper-dry set-up would be ideal (I bet you already do this). I often fish a small nymph under a big attractor with a #6 tungsten shot about 8-10" above the fly. I'll use between 24 and 48" of fluorocarbon tippet between the dry and nymph tied to the bend of the hook on the dry. On smaller, pockety freestones I have yet to find a more effective nymphing rig. Here in Colorado on the Big Thompson, a small tumbly freestone that fishes really well at 50-200 cfs, it's my "go-to" set up. Just treat the dry like a yarn indicator that will catch more than its fair share of fish, even when there aren't any bugs on the water.

[okflyfisher]

I fish nymphs more than I do classic dry flies. Here is my take:
On small western streams I hardly ever use
indicators.
The smoother the flow(usually deeper) the more likely I am to use an unsinkable dry fly or foam as an indicator.
The more technical the water is (ie high pressure Blue Ribbon rivers) the more likely
I am to use some type of indicater.
Even if I am floating a baetis nymph in the surface film I often I often use a tiny
indicater to help keep track of my fly.
When I use an indicator I always use the smallest one possible, open my loops wade into the correct position, and use fine tippet from the indicator to the nymph.

Stowaway,

A lot of people fish nymphs with very little or no fly line actually on the water. But I think you're right, if the fly line's on the water, that current in will affect the nymph's drift.

I think that's why Joe Humphries says to lift your line over the currents as much as possible. And why longer rods are an advantage when nymphing.

Stowaway,

I have fish rising to the strike indicator all the time -- same as you. I think that, in the absence of a hatch, it's adaptive for them to occasionally sample unusual stuff in the drift.

If they're always exploring new things a small percentage of the time, then they can adjust and still eat when conditions change.

[DG]

If you saw it on TV, then it must be true!

Do whatever you wish. But the nymph can't be moving naturally in the water if it is 1) attached to your line and 2) not really a natural nymph anyway. The strike indicator probably has an effect at times, but there is an effect from your line ALL the time.

Fish see all sorts of stuff coming at them underwater. If they want to eat it, they are going to eat it, regardless of what it is doing in the current. I catch fish while standing in the river with the rod under my arm sometimes. Talk about presentation!!

If you think the indicator is spooking the fish, try using a different indicator. On some rivers like the San Juan, I have seen black used instead of the bright colors normally seen. Then again I have fish come up and eat bright pink indicators, so...

[SilverMallard]

This thread is an excellent example of how easy it is to over-think this whole fly fishing thing. Now, I don't mean we shouldn't analyze the situation and make the most "realistic" (whatever that is) presentation possible. But DG's post makes a couple of good points. I've actually hooked fish (in the lip) by pulling the indicator gently from their mouths after they've inhaled it. And I've seen even the tiniest indicator seem to spook fish, too. So I'm not so sure there's a general rule to be gleaned from all of this. I think you have to watch the fish you're dealing with at that moment and then respond to what they are telling you. When I have more than one fish strike my indicator, I switch to a dry-dropper rig...or just a dry. They're telling me they're wanting to feed on the surface...that's what I think. It usually works out pretty well. If fish are shying from an indicator I try to go with a smaller one. If that doesn't work and I'm working some good fish feeding along the bottom, then I will try it with no indicator. But...in general...I catch WAY more fish using a small indicator than I do using none at all. I tend to fish long drifts with 30-60' of line on the water. The secret is all in mending properly and an indicator is the best way to control depth.

With all that said, I agree that it is sometimes very difficult to get a drag-free drift in complex currents. But I don't see it as being any MORE difficult due to the presence of a strike indicator. The fly line causes me more trouble than the indicator.

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Fishing the Ozarks

[This message has been edited by SilverMallard (edited 05 February 2005).]

DG and SilverMallard,

Overthinking? Maybe.

I rarely fish a location where I can get 30-60' of line out on the water. If I have to fish with that much line out, I'll follow your advice.

The point about the line being attached to the fly being the most artificial part of the whole set up is a good one. Having said that, I think you still want to minimize the appearance of the fly being unnaturally attached to something.

But I do think you're making somewhat the same point I was. There is no general rule, and you want to develop a range of methods that you can use in different situations. Some might involve the use of strike indicators and some might not. I think you said so yourself.

[dixieangler]

JonW,

I don't use them and I don't need them . While I don't fish nymphs as much as WarrenP, I am much the same way he is regarding indicators.


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Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

"Flip a fly"



[This message has been edited by dixieangler (edited 05 February 2005).]