Looking for help

[rookie]

I cannot seem to get this collar right. I don't have a problem making the loop, or getting the hair into the loop, or spinning the loop. The problem occurs when I try to wrap it onto the shank. It seems to just go everywhere and no matter what I can't seem to get control of the hair.

I know the squirrel hair is slippery. I also haven't made a collar like this cutting the hair so close on one side of the loop.

Can anyone give me some advise?

Here is a link to the fly I am trying to get the collar on.

http://www.invictaflies.us/Panfish%2...rrellycuss.htm

[Normand]

as you are wrapping the collar, you have to stroke the long ends of the hair back towards the hook bend for each and every wrap

[Buddy Sanders]

Rookie,

I wish the guy doing the tutorial hadn't just 'skipped through' what is the most important and critical step in getting this type of collar to look right (he spends lots of time showing you how to do the easy stuff that everyone already knows, then doesn't even show a photo, or better yet a photo sequence, of the only 'difficult' part of the fly).

Where he writes 'Stroke the hairs back as you go so none are wrapped over pointing forward', THAT is the 'critical step' that you have to pay lots of attention too or the fly will be a mess.

Squirrel is slippery but stiff, and you need to be constantly stroking back the hairs as you wind them onto the shank. You want to be sure that none of the hairs are pointing forward and get a wrap of thread over them, or they will be difficult to reposition. This isn't easy to do, it takes some practice, and as he mentions, some water may help. Don't be surprised if you need to tie a dozen or so before you can do this so that it looks decent.

Another way to do this is to wrap the 'brush' just once around the shank, then tie it off, stroke the hairs back and wrap them into place with the tying thread. This does make a sparser collar, but is easier to accomplish.

Buddy

[rookie]

Normand, Buddy,

You guys nailed my big problem. As I am trying to stroke the hair back, it comes out of the loop. I am just using a one finger touch so I am not pulling it out as I stroke it but it is comming out anyway. I think I am getting the loop tight enough.

[Deezel]

Okay, this may be way way out there. Has anyone ever tried using a very fine amount of thin 'contact cement' on both threads of the dubbing loop? I've tried it a few times and it worked with hairs. You must be careful in the application otherwise you'll get globs along the loop.

Deezel

[caddis16]

I wish the guy doing the tutorial hadn't just 'skipped through' what is the most important and critical step in getting this type of collar to look right (he spends lots of time showing you how to do the easy stuff that everyone already knows, then doesn't even show a photo, or better yet a photo sequence, of the only 'difficult' part of the fly).

Tough to do if you are tying and doing the pics.

[DShock]

I have a question? Could this Fly be tied with Hare's Mask?
Thanks,
Doug

[Normand]

Tough to do if you are tying and doing the pics.

thats why they put timers on cameras

[2 Bead Pupa]

rookie said ...I also haven't made a collar like this cutting the hair so close on one side of the loop I think that part of your problem is that you're supposed to have the hair centered in the loop .

[Normand]

I think I am getting the loop tight enough.

apparently not. its gotta be real tight. the short ends may even have to be a little longer. youre wrapping over them anyway.

this site is in french but the pictures are universal. take a look at this tutorial

http://www.jpdessaigne.com/

then click on "les montages" in the lower left of the top banner

then click the fourth fly in the top row and then either the 3rd or 4th fly and see what hes doing for the collar.