Your thoughts on the fish and fishing ethics...

[DShock]

I'm sure the Mark Twain National Forest is a fine place to visit, but Yellowstone National Park speaks for it's self in the statistics.
Yellowstone is in the northwest corner of Wyoming, more than 1,000 miles from where I live. That means that it is even further away from folks in Washington St. and California and I don't know how far it is from you and the eastern U.S., so no one is twisting anyone's arm to go there. God blessed this Park with heavenly things and anyone who has flyfished Yellowstone knows that it is a dream come true!
It kind of blows the idea that it's all about catching fish, out of the water!
It's also the craziest place I have ever flyfished, when I would be fishing the Firehole River, no one fishing with me and hundreds of cars driving by on their way to Old Faithful.
Kinda made me feel strange!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ma ... stone+Park Enlarge Green Map.
Doug

[SW Ladyfish]

Tim,

The weather in MT was mid 80's with no humidity the week we were there. Evening temps were in the 60's except when we were in the mountains and then it was downright cold! Drove up the Beartooth Highway to the alpine lakes and saw what little snow is left in the mountains.

The issue in Montana is the long-term drought (9th year) and a very warm winter. There was not much snow pack to melt. That means there will be even less water if you go in September because of the irrigation that is necessary to sustain crops and continues to draw down the water levels. They don't expect to get much rain over the next month or so and what little they've had barely knocked down the dust.

This is our 3rd August trip and the first we've seen fishing restrictions. The fish we caught in the Soda Butte were fat and healthy. The water was very cold in this area.

No, we didn't fish any of the "warm" water. There are plenty of cold mountain streams with a nice population of browns and rainbows.

We left the fish unharmed.

Dianne

[Litehen55]

I too saw people fishing during the closures while in the Park in July. Don't know why they felt they needed to but always someone who will do things the way they think is OK. Mentioned it to several fisherman, and they blew us off. Also saw a lot of people bait fishing everywhere in YNP and Montana in FF only water. Need to follow the rules, but more importantly our own ethics. JIM C

[ladyflyfisher]

I just visited a state park in Mo. (Montauk) You can fish from 7am to 8pm. What bothered me was the spin fishers
fishing the ff only part of the stream. This was happening everywhere. I did not advise anyone that the area was ff only, I didn't want to create a bad situation, I was there to have a good time.
If the people at the park don't know about this, they must never go to ff only stream, because everytime I was on the stream I saw one or two people with spin outfits.
What really bothered me at Montauk was people cleaning their fish and dumping the guts,skin and heads in the stream. In Illinois, you can't clean at the water. I did ask at the lodge about it and they said--oh, everyone cleans at the stream.
It may be okay for them, but I won't do it.

[Jeremy]

Dianne,
Having just read through most of this thread (work is very, very slow here..) you've received some fine dialogue. I congratulate you on your trip. Sounds like you two had a fine time out west and I hope my envy doesn't shine through here...*G* from this office space.

To answer your orig. question, I'm not too sure what I'd do either. For sure I'd want to "gently" let the offenders know the rules but that's been covered in replies. Stupid is as stupid does, I guess. Pity, isn't it!

We go to all that trouble researching where to fish, all that distance and prep. only to find you can't fling a fly!! That hurts. But....as sports people we need topay attention to the rules as put forth by our DNR. They really do know more than Joe Public knows. We have to trust this!

Yeah, none of the guys I know would dismiss the laws. They're interested and concerned with the welfare of the fishery too....on the long term basis. Sounds kind of lame to have to say what you already know, that the general public (enough to make a big difference) could give a hoot about the general wlefare of the fish and/or the laws regarding fishing/tresspass/littering etc. and a host of other rules that make this country what it is. It's like tossing your garbage out in your own back yard. I'll never understand the mentality....

To summ it up, I don't believe the punishments are tough enough for offenders of our game laws. And this carries over to other criminal acts too. But we won't go there.

I don't have a better answer. All I feel is that we don't have enough control and money to enforce strict ..STRICT...rules and regs. in many areas of our society. It's up to all of us to act accordingly and that's not going to happen. That's a real shame, to the detriment of us all. Like the garbage in your own yard thing....people are sickeningly stupid and selfish.

If I had my choice, I'd gladly pay double...or triple... the fees to ensure these violators get stopped in their tracks, provided that money goes where it's intended. I don't think I"m alone here either. None of this should be allowed and if enforcement could manage to get a handle on the problem then it would begin to stop. But it's not just the law enforcement folk, that won't do it. It's John Q. Public that has to take the responsiblity to police himself and teach his kids this same principle so it's handed down.

It's not too hard to do. Why??? I'll never fathom it!

This was a good post. This is what these BB's are about. To share and let each other know we're all in this game together and to act responsibly and set the example. I'm "old school"...I don't think there's any excuse....none!

Glad to hear you had a great time out there. That's what this sport is all about!

I really need to go fishing again soon.

Jeremy.

[SilverMallard]

I just visited a state park in Mo. (Montauk) You can fish from 7am to 8pm. What bothered me was the spin fishers
fishing the ff only part of the stream. This was happening everywhere. I did not advise anyone that the area was ff only, I didn't want to create a bad situation, I was there to have a good time.
If the people at the park don't know about this, they must never go to ff only stream, because everytime I was on the stream I saw one or two people with spin outfits.
What really bothered me at Montauk was people cleaning their fish and dumping the guts,skin and heads in the stream. In Illinois, you can't clean at the water. I did ask at the lodge about it and they said--oh, everyone cleans at the stream.
It may be okay for them, but I won't do it.

In the Ozarks, this cleaning fish streamside and leaving the offal in the water is considered the RIGHT thing to do by most. It's an old cultural practice that goes back to the hillbilly days of "waste not, want not." The remains were left for the critters along the banks and other fish in the stream to eat. I happen to also find it very distasteful. But it is sort of a "when in Rome..." thing.

[DShock]

I just visited a state park in Mo. (Montauk) You can fish from 7am to 8pm. What bothered me was the spin fishers
fishing the ff only part of the stream. This was happening everywhere. I did not advise anyone that the area was ff only, I didn't want to create a bad situation, I was there to have a good time.
If the people at the park don't know about this, they must never go to ff only stream, because everytime I was on the stream I saw one or two people with spin outfits.
What really bothered me at Montauk was people cleaning their fish and dumping the guts,skin and heads in the stream. In Illinois, you can't clean at the water. I did ask at the lodge about it and they said--oh, everyone cleans at the stream.
It may be okay for them, but I won't do it.

It's like litter, you pack it out!, out of respect for the stream.
Doug

[SilverMallard]

I just visited a state park in Mo. (Montauk) You can fish from 7am to 8pm. What bothered me was the spin fishers
fishing the ff only part of the stream. This was happening everywhere. I did not advise anyone that the area was ff only, I didn't want to create a bad situation, I was there to have a good time.
If the people at the park don't know about this, they must never go to ff only stream, because everytime I was on the stream I saw one or two people with spin outfits.
What really bothered me at Montauk was people cleaning their fish and dumping the guts,skin and heads in the stream. In Illinois, you can't clean at the water. I did ask at the lodge about it and they said--oh, everyone cleans at the stream.
It may be okay for them, but I won't do it.

It's like litter, you pack it out!, out of respect for the stream.
Doug

Dshock, the folks around here...including many of the wildlife managers...will argue that it is more ecologically sound and beneficial to the fishery to leave the offal for the following reasons:

1. Keeps critters along the stream and out of the campgrounds, resorts, and yards near trash receptacles.
2. Gives the fish more biomass to eat.
3. Gives the scavengers stuff to eat.
4. Gives the predators EASIER stuff to eat than if they have to catch live fish...thus reducing predation of game fish.
5. Prevents that nasty smell in the parking lots, campgrounds, resorts, and yards of homes near trash containers.

It is a compelling argument that has always carried the day in Missouri. But I also suspect that banks littered with carcasses also ATTRACT MORE predators than would otherwise be there. So I'm not so sure of the net ecological gain vs. loss proposition with regard to predators. And it makes the fisheries smell and look nasty. But it sure does give you a lot more uses for white yarn and dubbing material! LOL

[Dr. Fish]

They are pulling your leg about why they have the 2:00PM cut-off.

The real reason is that the budget has been cut for all forestry and outdoor concerns nation-wide. They can't pay a ranger to check licenses for more than a few hours a day, so rather than leave people to thier own devices, they simply stop everyone from fisheng. The next step will be selling the area to a private concern that will charge you either by the hour, or by the fish to use the area. It's already happened in several places around here.

Think about it. Trout to not need "time to rest". If the water temp gets too warm for them, they will not bite, whether or not there are anglers present.

And it's not really a law. It is a DNR policy. It can be changed much easier than a law can.

For more information on the new travesties being committed by the U.S. Forestry Service, various state DNRs and your elected officials as they try to privatize our heritage, go to http://www.wildwilderness.org/, and http://www.westernslopenofee.org/NoFee/home.php.

Semper Fi!

For starters the water closures have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with budget cuts. What rubbish. Only select waters are closed and far more waters remain open than closed in the park with the restrictions.

As far as the resting time goes, as mentioned that term is not what it sounds. The waters do need to be closed that get too warm as these fish have a short season for building the needed fat to withstand the harsh winters so when the water is not frozen, they strap on the feed bag and eat, even in warm waters. Hooking and fighting a fish in real warm water simply exhausts the fish and they easily die from the stress.

As for for SW Ladyfish's post it is sad when "anglers" don't familiarize themselves with the current regulations. I just returned from 13 days in SW MT and NW WY, including several day in YNP. I drove over 1000 miles around the park with my kids and we never saw a single angler fishing during the closure. We did see anglers fishing the Gibbon, the Gardiner and the Soda Butte after 2:00pm however they were fishing in parts of those streams that were not covered by the closures. It was hard to understand why anglers would stack up on the Gibbon in the meadows above Gibbon Falls after 2:00pm when there are far better waters to fish and not have to contend with the crowds. Odd indeed.

I fished a few days and did OK but the warm weather did have the fish a bit off in areas. Despite the heat and low water levels I was rained on every single one of the 13 days I was in the area. Most days were a passing shower but 3 days were heavy soaking rains which was nice to see.

After talking to some anglers it was obvious that those that might have been breaking the closure rules just didn't know any better. I met several who had no idea how to tell a Rainbow from a Cutt. I stuck to the cold waters for the most part and did well at those locations, including a great day on Grebe.

If I had seen someone breaking the rules I would have walked up and politely informed them of the closure instead of watching them. I agree that the Ranger's have far more pressing issues to handle other than fishing closure enforcement but it would have been nice to see one out on the water.

As for the entry fee, $25 is a real bargain. I paid it twice as my entries were spread over 8 days and had no issue with that. It's an amazing place that does unfortunately have far too many stupid people approaching animals, causing traffic jams and leaving litter on the roads and the rivers.

[J Castwell]

Thanks Jeff, bang on,,, as always.