Your thoughts on the fish and fishing ethics...

[SW Ladyfish]

Hi All,

My husband and I have just returned from a week long fishing trip in Montana. The weather was glorious; but, too dry. The southern rivers are down 50% and not much rain in the forecast. The winter snow was light and the snow pack is pretty much gone. To say their situation is not good is an understatement as forest fires rage in various parts of the state. This is their 9th year of drought and the worst of those years.

Montana and YNP have mandated fishing closures on various rivers in the area and for very good reason. The Hoot Owl closures in YNP close fishing at 2:00 PM until 5:00 AM on the following morning to allow the fish to rest during the heat of the day and recover during the cool nights.

During the days in the park we saw many people fishing on the closed rivers after 2:00 PM. There were 3 people with fishing gear headed for the Fishing Bridge (closed since 1972 and posted) and when the person walking in front of us told them it was closed, they ignored him. There were a number of fly fishers on the closed areas of the Yellowstone, Lamar and Soda Butte during the late afternoon and well into the evening. During our time fishing and touring we did not see a single NPS ranger. I was surprised, and disappointed at the number of folks we saw in one evening!

What would you have done in this situation?

We did nothing. There didn't seem to be much we could do or say unless we spotted a ranger and could alert them to the problem. The NPS probably already knows and believes that most of us are law abiding and the rest aren't worth worrying about considering their manpower levels.

As an aside, the fishing was excellent (legal hours) and we had our best YNP fishing ever. And, because of the closures we ventured further afield and discovered some great small mountain streams (cold, cold water) and alpine lakes. We'll be headed back again next year for more exploring...

regards,

Dianne

[Jed]

I don't know your access to cell phones or reporting them but I would have mentioned it the next time you came into contact with a ranger or by cell if possible. When on vacation especially I don't drop what I'm doing to report something like that but I do like to make it known to the authorities when I can.

You made an effort to talk with the violators and that's good. Since they ignored you there is little else you should do (in my opinion).

jed

[WarrenP]

That is so sad, but, I am not surprised. As I get older, I start appreciating animals more and humans less. I can always depend on my animals. Greed and money continue to destroy more and more of our beautiful country each year.

I am so sorry you had to witness this and I am very sorry to have read about it. Kinda makes me want to find a hole and crawl into it. So very sad.

[Gardenfish]

good for you for doing the best you could. There are louts everywhere who deem themselves above law, ethics, and morality.
Paul

[TyroneFly]

I would call the authorities. No sense in confronting the unlawful ones. In this day and age you could get shot. Leave it to the authorities.

[jeffnles1]

Like someone else said, there are louts everywhere (louts, great word, I haven't heard it used for a long time).

The best thing to do is let the rangers know if you see one that people are fishing on xyz stream by abc road. If the rangers don't care, there's not a lot you can do to help right there (write letters when you get home, but right then and there, not much you can do).

Also, remember it's also your vacation and your enjoyment. Just because a few others are breaking the rules and are louts (love that, much more polite than the phrase I had in mind), there's no need to dwell on it or let it ruin your time.

The poachers cannot be having a good time either looking over their shoulders to keep watch for a ranger with a ticket book in hand.

It's always beyond my comprehension when I see the selfishness and total disregard for the rules exhibited by some. The bright side to this is that most of us do respect authority and follow the rules and have an ethical perspective. It's the few bad apples that ruin it for the rest of us.

Jeff

[PCRusty]

If you have a camera handy you can always take a picture of the offender. Make it obvious that you are taking it as well. If you're going digital and you have lots of shots try taking picture of the cars in the parking lot as well. Pay particular attention to the License plates. If nothing else you can e-mail them to someone higher up the food chain in the NPS. It could be that someone isn't doing their job. After all fines are a source of revenue as well.


Rusty <><

[DShock]

Dianne,
I have been to YNP quite a few times and I was amazed how low the % of visitors that actually fished. In my opinion the Rangers have their hands full with policing crazy tourists that snuggle up to a buffalo for a photo. I don't think a small amount of flyfishers breaking the rules is a threat to anyone's safety. It's the priority system. I wouldn't be surprised at all that the Park is understaffed, so confronting flyfishers is not that important to them. I don't understand the 'Time Limit' rules. Why not CLOSE the water and be done with it!
I pray Montana gets some relief soon! (RAIN) It's so sad that such beautiful rivers have to be under so much stress!
Doug

[SilverMallard]

I see people violating the regs almost every time I go fishing. If the opportunity is obvious, I always talk to them about it in a friendly and non-confrontational "hey, I'd hate to see you get a ticket" way. I have called the warden on the cell phone a few times when it pegged my meter. But, basically, I have come to grips with the fact that Americans are a pretty lawless bunch of rebels who adhere to the "it ain't illegal unless I get caught" principle. And don't even bother trying to discuss ethics/morality in such situations. If they had any, they would 1. know the regs, and 2. already be abiding by them. And you cannot gain from appealing to someone's sense of morality when they don't have one. That's sort of like asking a blind man what his favorite color is.

Our country is not a police state, thank goodness. It was never our desire or intent to stop 100% of violations of the law. We err on the side of liberty. We put folks on the honor system for almost everything. It works pretty darned well, too. The goal is to keep lawlessness under control. And there are much bigger issues we should be working on fixing than a few ignorant or self-centered yuppies stressing fish in Yellowstone National Park.

With all that said, the powers that be are there to ensure the best possible outdoor experience for everyone. Protecting the resources is a big part of that equation. So the wise angler follows the expert guidance of the rules and recommendations of the wildlife management, enforcement, and public lands management authorities FOR HIS/HER OWN GOOD. Sometimes you can fix ignorance. But you can't fix stupid. It's good to discuss things like this, but we have to be realistic about the outcome.

[Vulture6]

There are two types of national park rangers - there are those that interact on a regular basis with the public, and quite frankly may be overwhelmed in those areas. The second type are sworn federal law enforcement agents. The public doesn't necessarily see them too often, but their primary duty is law enforcement.

Ideally, if you told one of the first rangers, they'd call the second kind. Might depend on how busy they were.

Long story short, I'd call either the law enforcement division of that park, or I'd call a game warden.