Is that right - wow, thanks Gig.

I know that my original post said it was the thread that was the problem but I must say that it is really not the thread so much,as I have learned to manage that mostly, using the various techniques above. Lately I have been tying PTN's and going crazy snipping the feathers in half all the time as I wrap. Floss is a problem too if you let it flare out too much, i.e not wind it as you wrap.

I think I'll just persevere, or maybe I could just hide the point for PTN's and not the others.

Thanks for the help guys and letting me vent!! LOL

By the way Billknepp the eyes are probably half of it too. I got new glasses and am trying to use a magnifying glass because I found it so confusing with the change of focal lengths... Other half blind people will know what I mean!!!