Are trout flies just as effective as panfish flies?

[chavez]

One of my favorite species to go after since I started fly fishing are brim/bluegill/panfish/sunfish or whatever you call them. Ounce-per-ounce they are great fighters.

Now, when I started I used the bluegill specific poppers and foam and woolly spiders, etc. and did fine. I later tried wet flies and patterns like hare's ear nymphs and found them very effective.

I later thought, why not try established trout patterns of things that look like things panfish eat as well so I went on to try scuds, stimulators, humpys, griffth's gnats, elk hair caddis, etc. and they catch just as many fish. I almost never head to a pond and not catch a bluegill, redbreast, greenie, rio grande, shellcracker or even largemouth on a trout fly I try.

Given that the flies created for trout have been designed and tested over decades to match or resemble the same sort of things that bluegill eat why do we try and keep a separate fly box with panfish specific flies? Could it be that all the places I fish for panfish, the fish don't care and will eat anything I give them (not likely I think)?

Sorry, if this topic has come up before but the Search function isn't returning any results older than April of this year.

[Jim Sentell]

Hey Chavez;

FYI, I catch the hell out of warmwater species on #8 Pheasant Tail Nymphs, Royal Wulff's and Black Wooly Buggers.

Bluegill and Yellow Perch slam the PTN and LMB seem to savor the Royal Wulff.

Go figure; could it be we go with what we're told is the standard for trout and the standard for panfish?

Experimenting with flyfishing is a blast, and a real education.

Jim

[deeky]

I think the species-specific mentality exists due to the move towards at least imitation flies, and even realistic flies when targeting trout. This is precipitated by the thought that trout are very selective feeders.

I was going say that any trout fly will work at some point on the pannies, but not all panfish flies will work for trout, thinking about the gaudy, flourescent colors we sometimes tend to use for warm water quarry.

But I'm going to change my mind already and say that even those gaudy panfish flies will work for trout. Yes, I do believe trout can be more selective in their feeding than panfish. But having recently gotten into tying the classic wet patterns (for panfish), it has become clear that even the trout like flashiness in their flies at times. The classic wets cover the color range from all drab brown in a fly to bright red, yellow, orange, and other colors with plenty of shiny tinsel.

So in short, your boxes may include some slightly more hatch-specific patterns for trout, but certainly (at the risk of offending the purists) the same box absolutely can be used for both warm and cold water situations.

[Big Bad Wulff]

Try an olive or black wooley bugger with dumbell eyes out on the bass. Hold on tight.............

[Buddy Sanders]

Chavez,

You wrote near the end:

"Could it be that all the places I fish for panfish, the fish don't care and will eat anything I give them (not likely I think)?"

Actually, you've figured it out, sort of.

Most 'bluegill flies' are easy, quick ties. Things where you can put together a fly box full in an evening's tying.

Not because these 'work better' than the more imitative trout flies, but because they work just as well.

Panfish like the bluegills, redears, whatever they are, are NOT trout. They do feed differently. Like all of the 'sunfishes', these fish are opportunistic predators, and you don't need to 'match' anything for them to strike.

It's the 'presentation' that matters. A bit of chenille wrapped around the hook will catch the same fish as a well tied GRHE as long as both are presented properly.

So, you can (and I 'prefer' to in most cases), use trout style flies to catch bluegills and such. I like tying the trout flies, and since I tie as a form of relaxation, I'm not too concerned, in most cases, about how long a fly takes to tie. I've been catching a lot of big bluegills lately on a #10 stonefly nymph that's pretty relistic and takes quite some time to tie. This is in warmwater lakes in Arizona, though, so the 'gills here have never seen a stonefly.....

But, many of the trout flies are fun to tie and the 'gills and occasional bass don't seem to mind them.

They work just fine, but they don't work 'better', nor worse, than the panfish specific flies that we see out there.

It's the fisherman, not the equipment.

Good Luck!

Buddy

[WarrenP]

All fish pretty much eat out of the same refrigerator!!

[OldBaldGuy]

chavez, as you're raiding your "trout fly box" for bluegill fishing, don't overlook those b*tch creek nymphs. Some days, they're the ticket around here.

[DShock]

I once caught at least 30 bluegill on a size 12 Stimulator. I was amazed because I didn't think their little mouths could open that wide. The action of the fly is important, make it look like it's struggling.
Doug

[Wild One]

Whew, somebody finally asked it! I've been thinking the same things ever since I started warm water fishing. I've been thinking more along the lines of bass though. I see all these brightly colored deer hair flies that look to me more like a gimmic than serious fly fishing. It seems there are more bass-specific flies than any other species. I've just recently started tying again a very long absence. I used to live in the Rockies so I tied only trout flies. Now I see so many other flies for warm water and I constantly ask myself "can't I just tie the trout flies I was used to doing and still catch as many fish? Or do I need to learn a ton of new patterns?" I understand the need for deer hair and foam poppers, but I'm talking more about the subsurface flies. Can I catch as many warm water fish on buggers as I could with a diver or other bass fly?

[chavez]

I just came back from fishing a little park lake for an hour and probably caught about 15 greenies and red breasts on a size #14 foam beetle, #16 orange humpy, #16 elk hair caddis, and #16 PMD. I had to stick to dries mostly since there seemed to be an awful lot of subsurface algae for some reason. Otherwise, I know a #14 olive hare's ear would have generated more numbers.