Loop-to-loop connection

[lastchance]

I hope this isn't hijacking a topic. I'm really not sure what that means.
Anyway, I started experimenting with a loop-to-loop connection of my leader to a short butt section.
Equals: 6 to 8 inch section of butt knotted to fly line with nail knot; loop on butt to attach looped pre-tied leader. This allows me to always have a balanced leader. Also, it's very easy to slip off the nymph leader and attach a dry fly leader when the situation arises. Anyone care to give their opinion on this method and have any other suggestions?

[Jeremy]

lastchance,
I HATE loops. Those huge knots at the leader butts. HATE 'em!

I began using them exactly as you described, when I began fly fishing. I'll use them now on warm water stuff, especially bassing because you tend to get hung up really well sometimes in the reeds and you need to pull sometimes quite hard to get free. And presentations aren't an issue bassin'! In fact the opposite is true. Slapping your bug down!

Trouting though, I hate 'em. I tie my own leaders now and attach to the fly line with a nail knot. You'll break a rod before that knot lets go.

And I used your method when I began because my casting caused me to tangle so frequently. Now that I've MUCH improved my casts through a lot of "on the grass" learning (which is so important!) tangles/casting knots aren't any trouble, mostly. Sometimes but nothing like a few years ago.

Those huge knots are lousy entering/exiting your rod tip-top guide. And my tip tops are fine because I use 1,2 3 and sometimes 4wts in graphites. Nothing heavier for the small water I fish.

You'll go through many changes....it's all personal prefs.

Good luck and keep asking here. Lots of us do it lots of ways for lots of reasons and situations.

Jeremy.

[lastchance]

Jeremy: I have been fly fishing for years, about 15, and didn't begin with the loops. It's something I just recently began. It seems easier to change to a dry fly leader, from a nymph leader, with a loop connection. Previously, I carried an extra spool with a dry fly leader already attached and restrung the rod. My only problem is that the loop hangs up on the tip top guide when I'm reeling a fish to hand causing a few acrobatics.

[n2permit]

With loop to loop connections, you might try a relatively long surgeons loop, both on the butt section and leader section. Using a softer mono, when connected, they tend to flatten or streamline out and pass through the tiptop better than a perfection. Adding a drop of pliobond to the surgeons knot helps too.

[Avalon]

Dear lastchance,

I have been using a 6 to 8 inch section of butt material blood knotted to all my fly lines for about 20 years now and I will never go back to nail knotting each knew leader on the line.

The benefits of the permanent butt section far outweight any perceived inconveniences for me.

P.S. For future reference, a hijack occurs when in the middle of a discussion you switch topics away from the start of the thread, for example if I said in response to your question about a permanent butt section that I liked to fish streamers that would be the start of a hijack. As long as things stay close to the topic you started there is no hijack.

Best Wishes,
Avalon

[harleybob87]

I used to use the nail knot and then went to the loop to loop. Kept searching for a better way. heard about this one knot on here infact that everyone was questioning and commenting on. I tried it. The leader snaped before the know gave way and it was fast and oh so EASY. It is called the castwell knot give it a try you will love it. Easy to change leaders and super strong.

[CM_Stewart]

I understand why you would want a loop to loop connection, but I don't understand why you only attach a 6-8 inch section to your line. Why not your full butt section of 30-36 inches and then your loop. That way, you'd never have to worry about it going through the guides once you've rigged your rod and it would still be far enough away from your fly that I don't believe it would scare fish. Besides, I suspect all your various leaders use the same or nearly the same butt section anyway.

[Jeremy]

lastchance,
Ahhh..*Grins*.. you have been FF'ing TWICE as long as I have. I had no reference so I gave you my best. I think you know what you're doing.

Also as an aside, I (rarely) have to switch leaders around during a day-trip (4-6 hrs) on the water. I do need to re-do the lower portion "sometimes" though, depending on nymphing, tiny dry fly, small streamer fishing, back to some late p.m. hatches topside or terrestrials etc.

I'll use the same leader butt section for the entire season on a given rod. And, like most, I have a number of rods for trout etc. so the possibilities are endless.

I simply can't use those large knots from perfection loops etc.

Jeremy.

[lastchance]

Gees, I never thought of that, CM!

[Avalon]

I understand why you would want a loop to loop connection, but I don't understand why you only attach a 6-8 inch section to your line. Why not your full butt section of 30-36 inches and then your loop. That way, you'd never have to worry about it going through the guides once you've rigged your rod and it would still be far enough away from your fly that I don't believe it would scare fish. Besides, I suspect all your various leaders use the same or nearly the same butt section anyway.

Dear CM,

Unless you are tying your own leaders I can't understand why you see any advantage to a 30 to 36" long permanent butt section?

You effectively double the length of the stoutest portion of your leader unless you cut off 3 feet from every leader you used. It would become critical to constantly match the diameter of your butt section to the leader.

With a 6 inch butt section that is not an issue, you can knot on 6 inches of .020 diamter butt section and use a commercially made leader with a butt diameter of .024 to .017 with little difficulty. I can't even imagine what it would be like to try to cast a leader with a butt diameter attached to a 36 inch permanent butt of substantially thinner material.

In addition, I'd like to see how you use a 9 foot leader attached to a 36 inch butt section on a 7 1/2 foot or shorter rod? You'd have to have a 72" sleeve length to come close to reaching a fish without reeling the entire butt section through your guides.

I'm 6' 5" tall with long arms and when using a 9 foot rod with a 9 foot leader I find that I frequently have to reel the 6 inch butt section of my leader through the tip top to reach the fish because I often am restricted as to how far overhead I can lift my arm and rod due to streamside trees and shrubs.

I'm not saying you can't do what you do, if it works for you that's fine. I'm just saying I can't imagine doing it without a lot of difficulty.

Best Wishes,
Avalon