Orvis Claims: Speed of a Running Permit?

[flymaker2]

The Spring 2005 Orvis Catalog features a new Saltwater reel called the Vortex VO2. In the description of the reel it mentions a vast improvement to the drag. It also mentions why they needed this better drag:

Quote from page 33: "A Permit in a full run can spin a reel at 16,000 RPM, creating tremendous friction on a drag surface" End Quote.

Can this be true, or is it a typo? That would mean the handle of your reel would be spinning at a knuckle busting speed of 266 revolutions per second!

That is smokin' Anyone else see that catalog? Anyone had a fish run like that? I've caught Makos on the fly and I'm not sure if my handle was spinning quite that fast...maybe it was?

Rich

[This message has been edited by flymaker2 (edited 13 February 2005).]

[uptroutfishr]

Interesting.

Let's see . . . each revolution of the reel will put out a length of line equal to approximately 3.14 times the diameter of the reel (with line).

Because there are 12 inches in a foot, 5280 feet in a mile, and 60 minutes in an hour, the conversion of RPM to miles per hour (line speed) is about:

RPM x D x 0.003

where D is the reel diameter in inches. For 16,000 RPM, then, it appears that the line leaving the reel at a rate of nearly 200 miles per hour if the reel diameter is 4 inches.

Can permit swim 200 miles per hour?

Of course, I could have made a mistake in the math.

flymaker,

A couple of years ago the Orvis catalog had a similar speed for the bonefish. I converted the speed, similar method used by uptroutfishr, and came up with a similar ridiculous figure.
Hey, why let the facts interfere with good marketing or a lightheaded audience?

Allan

Faster than that if a larger spool. That is flyin! Some of the lake Michigan rainbows move pretty quick on the flats in fall and early winter. I don't know if they go that fast but I broke a finger one year trying to palm the reel(the handle hit my knuckle)

[Jed]

1600 rpm
Assume we are at the core of a SA reel. 1" core = 1 rpm per 3.1" of line or 4 rpm per foot. 16000 rpm = 4000' per minute or 240,000' per hour. That = 50 mph. That would be 50 mph after a minimum 150 yd run. Hmmmm. Sounds like a bit much.

jed

[BH Spey]

Let?s back into it and see what we come up with.

Couldn't find any data on how fast a Permit can swim, but found out that a Tuna is good for 40mph.

40 mph X 5280 ft/mi x 12 in/ft / 60 min/hr = 42240 Inches per minute

42240 in/min / 16000 rpm = a spool with a circumference of 2.64 inches.

2.64" / pi = a spool .84" in diameter.

So your typical Hardy standard arbor reel, just prior to getting spooled, would be turning at 16,000 rpm with a 40mph tuna on the other end.

Don't know how fast a permit is in comparison to a Tuna, but from what I understand they are a pretty fast fish.

So the claim isn't entirely unreasonable.

[flyfisherjoe]

That is hard to believe. Even a bullet traveling at 10 times that speed slows down to a halt in a second or two in water. I don't think anything, much less a fish, can travel that fast in water. Even if they could it would only be for a very, very short span. I also did a calculation. I couldn't find data for Permit so I based it on the speed of a very fast fish, a Wahoo. The data source I used is fishbase.org. I was surprised to learn a Wahoo can, for a second or two, move at a burstspeed up to 47 MPH. This would mean a 3.5 inch spool would rotate at 4500 RPM (75 RPS), but only for a second or two. It would slow down after that initial burst. I believe this burst is used to catch their prey and may not happen when hooked and there is no reel drag to slow them down in this calculation. That's pretty darn fast but I think the Orvis people may be exagerating a bit and they shouldn't be implying that a fish can move at those speeds for a long distance while pulling against the drag.

------------------
Joe



[This message has been edited by flyfisherjoe (edited 13 February 2005).]

[uptroutfishr]

From the Orvis catalog, the smallest of the VO2 reels has a diameter of 3 11/16".

But, to be fair, their statement is that "A permit in full run can spin a reel at 16,000 rpm . . .", which, as others have pointed out, can happen at 40 mph when the line is nearly all out on a .5in diameter reel.

Seems that they could have said 4,000 rpm, which would have been a more reasonable, and still impressive, statement.

[This message has been edited by uptroutfishr (edited 13 February 2005).]

One would assume that they (Orvis) figured that nobody would sit down and do the math. Way to keep em honest guys!

[DickM]

Interesting, but you can tell it is still winter and you guys have WAY TO MUCH TIME on your hands.