Tying At Shows

Per discussion on another thread, I'd like to ask a few questions to those of you who demonstrate tying at shows as well as those among you who go to shows and observe tiers:

(TIERS) When you tie at shows, do you:

1) a)tie flies that you actually fish?
b)tie flies based on the location of the show?
c)tie flies that are for framing?
d)tie flies that are requested by attendees?
e)other?

2) a)give the flies you tied away?
b)sell the flies you've tied?
c)donate the flies you've tied to the sponsoring show?
d)trade flies with other tiers at the show?
e)other?

3) a)stick to a limited pattern?
b)tie patterns or styles by request?
c)show techniques if requested?

4) a)represent or endorse any company?
b)typically make money at show?
c)typically lose money at show?

(ATTENDEES) When you go to a show, how would you describe the majority of the fly tiers you've watched:

a)friendly?
b)sharing?
c)receptive to requests?
d)mechanical and non-communicative?
e)had a air about them that they were doing you a favor by being there?
f)helpful?
g)other?

Personally, my experiences as both an attendee and as a guest tier leads me to say that sometimes my answers to the above questions depends on the size of the show. For example, The Fly Fishing Show in Somerset, NJ is a circus and it's difficult to even talk with some of the tiers. The Fly Fishing University Shows in Danbury, CT however, are very user and tier friendly. Lots of space and time for one-on-one interaction.

What do you think?

Allan

[Philly]

I've tied at my club's table at the both Somerset shows the past couple of years. We're a salt water club, so that's our orientation, though we've also are there to show kids how to tie if they're interested. I've also tied for a fly shop at a couple of the local shows here in the Philadelphia area.

1) a)tie flies that you actually fish?
Yes
b)tie flies based on the location of the show?
No
c)tie flies that are for framing?
My flies? You got to be kidding.
d)tie flies that are requested by attendees?
If I'm asked about a particular pattern I'll try. It's tough to tie a caddis pattern when you're working a salt water table.
e)other? I carry a box to display flies that I tie. Usually my more outlandish patterns. Nothing like a fire tiger Hula Popper to attract attention. For example at the January show. I had a size 32 next to an eleven inch long bunker patter. If someone asks a question about a pattern I'll try to answer it.

2) a)give the flies you tied away?
If someone's asked me to show them how to tie a pattern. Yes. It always helps to have an example.
b)sell the flies you've tied?
I've been asked if my flies are for sale. They're not
c)donate the flies you've tied to the sponsoring show?
If asked I would
d)trade flies with other tiers at the show?
Sometimes
e)other?

3) a)stick to a limited pattern?
I keep promising myself to do that, but I bring way too much tying stuff with me.
b)tie patterns or styles by request?
Yes
c)show techniques if requested?
Yes

4) a)represent or endorse any company?
b)typically make money at show?
c)typically lose money at show?
Doesn't apply to me since I don't have any products or flies to push.
I do it because I have no shame and will tie in public. Plus I enjoy talking to the people who stop by the table. You never know what you'll learn by talking to people.

[RonMT]

Allen I have to agree with you. It depends on the show and how many people are there. It can be a Zoo.

I carry 3 Kit's to each tying show that I do unless it is for something special. Then I will carry just for doing that area of tying. I carry a nymph kit, dry fly kit and a show kit. The show kit being for show flies Salmon flies and such. I can show people how to do things with those types of flies if asked. I will normally just start out with a fly of my own design then switch to anything that someone else want's to see. I have always given away all flies I tie at show's along with materials that I may tie with. I got most of them for free because of doing the show's. It get's products in front of people and give's them an idea of how they work.

When doing large show's that I was paid to do I was hired to do them by the Promoters and I had to prove I knew what I was about. They do not hire you if you can't work in front of people and if you do not know what you are talking about or do not do well at the show's. That is just a fact.

Are they fun to do? Yes at times they are but for the most part they are hard work. 12 hours a day for 5 day's in a row giving maybe 5 show's a day. Talking for hours to people. And not all of the people are real friendly. You always get a few that are jerk's. That to is a part of doing the show's.
But it is not all Glitz and Glamour either. Try eating fast food day in and day out for a week or drivng for 15 hour's to get to a show then 15 more to get back home after having done 5 days of 12 hours a day. If people were not making money doing these show's most would not be there and most shows would never happen. Sorry but that is a fact. Those booth's that the companys are in are in no way free. They pay big money for them at each show they do. The reason there are a lot of tyers at some of these show's is because the promoter's know they are a draw and it cost's the promoters very little to set up some talbes to let those people tie at the show.

At tying show's it is a different ball game. Most of it is just that, tying. You can take time to enjoy the people and not have to worry about getting to another area to do a show when people are still asking you question's from the last show you just did.

It is nice to set and talk to people and enjoy them. Most are great people and that is the good part of doing show's But there are always those few that think they know more than you or anyone else does. It is funny you never see them setting in a chair showing people how to tie flies? And yes there are the few tiers that have swelled head's. Again it is a part of being human. You can't kill them but at times you would like to.

My suggestion for people wanting to get into doing shows is to do some local tying at TU meetings and then go to larger and larger show's. In so doing you will get use to working in front of people and what to expect when at show's. Takes time to learn the ropes but just about anyone can do it if you are a good tyer and know how to talk with people. Always remember to be nice. That is a big part of doing show's. It is somethimes hard to do but you have to do it. Ron

[deeky]

Based on my limited experience of attending shows -

It was a smaller show, two days with maybe a couple dozen tiers. Over half of them were spinning and stacking big, colorful poppers and divers. Most of the others were tying other, high-skill flies with weaving and such. Don't get me wrong, those are impressive flies to tie and watch. But as I watched and listened, it became clear that a good portion of the audience was anywhere from novice to just getting interested in tying.

I enjoy working with deer hair and weaving and such, but that's not the place to begin the hobby of tying. If you are looking at doing shows, tie for your audience, whatever the skill level may be. You can really impress a beginner by stacking some rainbow colored mega-popper, and at the same time convince them that they could never do that. Or you can tie your own version of a HEN and get them hooked and confident to join the crowd of fellow tiers.

That's my opinion. One reason I may never be invited to tie at a show too.

[Philly]

Deeky:
That's a good point. If I'm at the show and we're suppose to be showing kids how to tie. I always bring Wooly Bugger and Green Weenie materials. I bring a bit of deer hair and CDC to show a CDC and Elk if anyone's looking for a simple caddis pattern. Even the bait fish pattern I tie is pretty much just 4 pieces of material tied round the hook. I think I have the most fun with the folks who stop by and watch when I'm tying it, and say that's a nice pattern but I only fish for trout. My question to them is why wouldn't you use this fly for trout, and you get some interesting discussions going that way.

Okay, perhaps I should give my answers to the questions that I listed.

As a tier, do I:

1) a)tie flies that you actually fish? - Always. At a show I was told by someone that I was the only person tying flies that you would actually use for trout.
b)tie flies based on the location of the show? - No, but I can see tiers tying more salt water flies or more trout flies depending on where the show is located.
c)tie flies that are for framing? - I tie flies to be used but I hope some people look at them and say good enough for framing. I have framed my flies.
d)tie flies that are requested by attendees? - All the time.
e)other? - Sometimes I'll tie a fly or two because it'll be unique or for laughs.

2) a)give the flies you tied away? - All of the time.
b)sell the flies you've tied? - No.
c)donate the flies you've tied to the sponsoring show? - Yes.
d)trade flies with other tiers at the show? - Yes, when I have the opportunity.
e)other? - If someone requests that I show them how to tie a particular fly, and if I know how, I'll tie that fly and give it to the person.

3) a)stick to a limited pattern? - Nope. Too boring.
b)tie patterns or styles by request? - Yes, if I know how and if my ability to tie it will benefit the person making the request.
c)show techniques if requested? - Same as 3)b.

4) a)represent or endorse any company? - No.
b)typically make money at show? - Never.
c)typically lose money at show? - Always.

(ATTENDEES) When you go to a show, how would you describe the majority of the fly tiers you've watched:

a)friendly? - Generally Yes.
b)sharing? - Yes but at the biggest show, the venue limits one-on-one interaction.
c)receptive to requests? - Most often yes. This depends on the type of fly being demonstrated.
d)mechanical and non-communicative? - See b and c
e)had a air about them that they were doing you a favor by being there? - Only a handful out of hundreds.
f)helpful? - Almost every fly tier I've sat in front of has been helpful, responsive and willing to share information about materials and techniques.
g)other? - Some tiers are excellent at tying and communication. Some are better at one or the other.
It's not that easy to proficiently tie a fly while talking with several people asking several questions at the same time. As a viewer of a demonstrating tier who I've watched, I always make sure to say 'Thank You' when the tier has finished showing me what I've asked to see. Also, I do not ask tiers for flies unless swapping flies had been pre-arranged.

Allan

[Joe Valencic]

I'm new to this forum, but not to fly tying or shows. My answers mirror Allan's, yet with what I consider an interesting twist. I tie at small shows (500-800 attendees, one-day shows) in Ohio & Michigan, and a couple of years ago at the December GLC show in Lansing. MI I was simply tying to fill my depleted fly boxes (I'm not a fancy tyer). I was tying Prince Nymphs when an attendee sat in front of me and asked he could watch me tie a prince from start to finish. He had come to the show to learn how to tie some "basic" patterns that work for a variety of freshwater species, and most tyers were tying flies geared toward the more accomplished tyers, and also which also showcased their talent as advanced tyers. I showed the fella how to tie the prince along with a couple of tips to make the fly more durable, then gave him the flies I tied so he could use them as patterns. I then tied a Hare's Ear and a simple Sucker Spawn for him as well. A more thankful guy you couldn't find that day.

For me, I found my calling to fill that niche for new tyers who come to shows to learn basic patterns. I've done this at four shows since then, and each time the chairs in front of me are filled for most of the day. The advanced tyers are filling the niche for their flies, but there will always be a need to tie basic flies for the new tyer, and I get a good feeling helping them out and giving away the flies. Yes, every show costs me money, but I feel like it's making an investment in the future of our hobby, and I get to meet a lot of interesting and talented people.

Joe