Powder River Drilling

[FIREMAN]

Just wanted to see if anyone else had watched this:

I think this was on 60 minutes or 20/20 something like that but it was a shame. From what I saw in a nut shell the government was trying to screw the land owner by drilling for natural gas on privately owned land in Wyoming. I know that I may never fish in Wyoming but the whole story was kind of crazy. Basically state law says that whatever is on top of the ground belongs to the owner and whatever is below belongs to the government.

They had this poor cowboy and other ranchers interviewed and said that they (government) was taking valuable water resources from their livestock to aid in the drilling process. All of the water that they use is stored in holding ponds that these companies put in to avoid the runoff. The land owners get a mere $500-1000 for allowing the govt. to drill on their land(they didnt have a choice). What kind of Bull!@#$ is this? In a few years there have been approx. 1700 wells put into service on private land! Is this effecting any of you flyrodders out that way as far as water.

Seege

[drolfson]

Unfortunately Seege, That is corrct in many cases. The Mineral rights (rights to gas, oil, gold, silver, etc. . . ) can be separated from the property, and has been in many of the plots of land that have been sold by the original owners. Sometimes that was the railroads, sometimes BLM. They are required to pay for the resources they use, but the price is not set by the landowner.

I only have a limited knowledge of this, and have now exhausted it. What I have came from looking into buying a couple of peices of property briefly.

Don

[SilverMallard]

This is why you have to dig deep and pay close attention when you buy property. Mineral rights...the rights which accrue with ownership of the subsurface of a given piece of real property can, in most cases, be separated from the real property on the surface. If you buy a piece of ground that does not include these mineral rights, then you MUST permit the owner of said mineral rights to access THEIR property. They are required to compensate you for any losses or damage resulting directly from said access, but that's about it.

In many states, mineral rights NEVER accrue to the real estate located on the surface. Rather, they are the property of the state. In some states, the mineral rights are part of the real property. But in many, many cases they have long since been severed by deed from the surface property. The same is true of the air rights which accrue with ownership of real property. You've got to know what you are buying.

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Fishing the Ozarks

[Bostonangler]

Fireman,
My wife's grandfather has a lot of property there and has had his beautiful property torn apart. There is nothing he can do. Coal-bed methane (I Think) is the source. However, from what I have seen first hand, they have restored the land quite well. Unfortunately he is selling some of his property anyway.

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<*(((((><
Jim in CO

[pharper]

Its really too bad...

for more info check out this site: [url=http://www.powderriverbasin.org/cbm/index.htm:3dfab]http://www.powderriverbasin.org/cbm/index.htm[/url:3dfab]

They are looking to do this (coal-bed methane extraction) on the east slopes in Alberta. The headwaters of the Crowsnest River, the Bow River, Oldman, Castle, Waterton, etc. Most of Alberta's great trout streams will be affected. THey think they can do things cleaner than they did in Wyoming...

Because of the mistakes in Wyoming many of the new opperations have very good water containment systems installed. There will still be a huge impact!

This type of extraction requires a much higher density of well sites which means more roads, more watercourse crossings, and greater fragmentation of the landscape.

Its too bad that we need the gas and money so much more then we need the clean water, fish, and wildlands.

Paul

[PaulM]

A few facts.

* Not all landowners are un-happy with this development. Many landowners, who sold the mineral rights, before they understood the potential, compose the vocal minority.

* The water, being extracted, is often from the same aquifers being used for potable, cattle, and agricultural uses.

* Montana is currently working on new plans for better reclamation.

* Wetlands aren't being lost and in many cases new ones are being created.

* The extracted water is finding new uses for agriculture and livestock.

* The drought, in the region, has a far bigger effect on the wildlife and fish. While difficult for most to understand, Wyoming and Montana has been in a drought for 7-8 years. People tend to correlate any declines with the drilling and not the drought.

* Not that it matters, but most(all?) of the drilling isn't in trout country. Correlate the drillings sites with the trout fisheries.

? Population drives the need to develop our own resources. Developing this resource helps Americans on many levels. From providing good jobs to creating products used by consumers. Including fertilizers, home heating, plastics, and pharmaceuticals.

I only advocate safe extraction of our resources. I believe that resource extraction can be done correctly with minimal impact to the environment. I?m not directly involved in this development!