Hook in vise
OK, this is a serious question, though it may not come across that way.
I have been tying for about a year now, and when sitting down to the vise I often wonder whether I should have the hook in the vise just enough to hold it, or deep enough to cover the point? It came up again as I was watching a couple of videos on tying the Prince Nymph, one had the hook just in the jaws and the other barely had any point showing.
I can see advantages to both methods, especially the buried point when you have to sweep hair or hackle back, like for wet or wingless hair fly. I can also see an advantage for shallow mounting when using the barb or point as references.
So, which is the typical method, deep or shallow. Or is it just a matter of preference?
I bury the little ones, so they don't come flying out at me. Larger? Not so much
I agree with both of your reasons, but I have had the hook point break off when hiding it in the jaws. So...
The inside of your vice jaws are flat. If you grip the hook where the wire is level the grip will be all along the edges of the wire. If you grip the hook where the wire is tapering then becoming straight the grip will only be at either side of the point where the taper begins. Here is a sketch to illustrate what I mean.
Attachment 12384As it takes greater pressure to grip the wire at one point it will result in wear and damage to the vice jaws much quicker than gripping it where it is level. It is also pressure at this one point that has resulted in Joe's broken hooks.
Some people ignore this for the convenience of hiding the hook point. Understanding this though, leaves two positions. Learn to miss the hook point and have longer life of your vice jaws. Don't learn to miss the hook point and replace your vice jaws more often (not more often than anyone else, but than you would if you did it the other way). You pays your money and takes your choice.
I agree with Alan (many people say I'm always missing the point; in this case it comes in handy). Just a matter of keeping the thread out of the tube short and adjusting the angle when you're at the back end. There have been a few times, when I first started packing deer hair, that I had wished the point was buried in the jaws and not the tip of my finger, but I learned to avoid that.
I agree, don't bury the hook point in the jaws.
Did you get an instruction manual for your vice? What does the manufacturer recommend?
AlanB's point is interesting, but I cannot speak to its validity. The main reason I do not recommend 'burying the point' is if you do you are unnecessarily handicapping yourself. The vise is designed to hold the hook in such as way to minimize the amount of area held by the vise in order to maximize the space available to the tier to navigate a pattern.
If you bury your point, how are you going to accidently cut your thread while tying a fly. Seriously, I like to get the shaft of the hook up and out from the jaws of the vise, as much as I safely can, and sometimes canted to allow access to the gap and to allow adding tail materials and hackle, depending upon the fly.
Guess I position the hook the way I was taught years ago - point visible and bend easily accessible. I forgot the specific reasoning behind this positioning. I believe it had to do with possibly breaking the hook if the point is 'buried', and more accessibility if the hook is placed in the jaws at the low end of the bend. Of course practice and hand eye coordination leads to reducing the times you catch and break the thread. Alan - You wrote, "The inside of your vice jaws are flat". Really? I have 3 vises, my Regal, Universal, and my Dyna King have serrations or groves along the inside of the jaws. Allan