We've been down this road before. But since it was mentioned several times in another thread (that I didn't want to hijack), can someone point out what is meant by a "Crappy Hook". Let's see if you can identify specific manufacturers and model hooks with the reasons for your opinion, and know what it is you think you know or whether you just have an unsubstantiated opinion. Oh, there's nothing wroing with liking a brand or model. I'm just wondering what is meant by "crappy".
Care to opine?
There are crappie hooks and there are crappy hooks. Crappie hooks down south are usually Aberdeen light wire hooks designed to use with a minnow. However they can have feathers, fur and stuff added to make flies on them. I do it all the time. Crappy hooks are just that, crappy. Bad hooks that break and have other issues. Then there are those of us who only have a loose connection between our brains and fingers and type stuff we really do not mean to imply.
A crappy hook hook is whatever brand the tyer feels is inferior, with or without testing. I think the only really crappy hooks I have gotten was a box of Mustad #18 9671's that weren't properly tempered so that the entire tip broke off when you tried to crush the barb.
Umpqua, U-Series, U202 model, size 22
Most of the hook eyes were opened up if not completely straightened out. In my "opinion", that makes for a "crappy" hook. The hooks were returned to Sportsmans Warehouse of Grand Junction Colorado, and I was offered a full refund, or another bag of hooks. I took another bag, and upon inspection, these hooks were fine.
The U-Series from Umpqua, have a duller finish, and their points are not as sharp as their Tiemco cousins. That being said, at half the price as Tiemco, I am still using the U series.
That's as unsubstantiated as I care to get.
crap?py (ˈkr?p i)
adj. -pi?er, -pi?est. Slang. extremely bad; inferior.
For me, the ones that are soft, too brittle, eyes not fully closed, points not sharp, straighten out on a dink...etc. My Mother just loved that expression and we had crappie in our backyard pond down in UJ's neck of the woods. I believe that anyone who has tied for a period of time has certain hooks that will no longer be gracing the jaws of their vise. If further information is necessary, check my BLOG and see what I don't use...
As you probably know, mostly only native Georgian call them crappy and the majority of Southerner them croppy, speckled perch, specks, sacalait. I had to explain it to a friend in Mississippi they were so large and plentiful we would not call them crappy.
Originally Posted by planettrout
I guess I should have titled this thread "Poor Quality Hooks". Maybe that would've kept a few of you from changing/hijacking it and allowing some of us to actually discuss something.
There's always next time.
Hooks that have too soft of steel, and straighten out during use, including in the vise or on a fish (and someone once told me that was impossible here, even though it has happened to me many many times. Reality trumps theory). Cabelas brand dry fly hooks come to mind. Stopped buying those many years ago. A subcategory of this is hooks whose points turn over if they touch a rock or any other object. Small mustad hooks come to mind. They didn't used to do that. Couple packages of these, I quit buying Mustad.
Poor inspection/flawed manufacture. Hooks that have parts missing, are incompletely made, open eyes, no bend, line stamped across them almost cutting them in half...etc. Dai Riki 135s. After several packages of these many years ago, with about a 6% (3 per box of 50) nonfunctional hook rate, I quit buying them. Now in thousands of Dai Riki 700s, I have only found two bad hooks. Go figure.
I fully expect some of you to loudly proclaim that you have never had this happen with these hooks. You can have my share of the market for those, then. I will spend a couple more cents per fishing trip and stick with the hooks that don't let me down.
I've had supposedly quality hooks flatten ar the point where the wire was held by the vice. It wasn't over pressure that caused it as, I was using a Regal type vice at the time. Also several from the same make bend with the weight of the bobbin hanging from shank. A good pack had one bad hook per pack of 25. Recently I have been using a supplier of unbranded hooks. The last order was for wet fly hooks in packs of 1000. So far I have had three or four from this order that I wouldn't use. The price was ?10 ($15) per 1000. I'd have to throw away 40 to be at the same level as the so called quality hooks, When I have finished them I possibly will have found that number of defects but only wasted 1/40 of the money buying defective hooks. Now I price flies based on what I can get these hooks for. If a customer wants a specific hook then I will obtain it and use it, at a premium.
My point is that it is a "suck it and see" process. If you find that the hooks are not as good as you want don't buy them. Don't be conned into thinking that higher price means higher quality.
The other thing I realised is that machine made hooks are often more consistent than mass produced hand made hooks. Think about the hardening process. Someone making them by hand will heat the hooks until they glow a certain colour. Now I'm well into my photography so I know how much colour perception varies. Both from person to person and from day to day for one person. So the temperature will also vary. If you set up a machine with a temp of x as the lower setting and y as the upper of temperature then when the machine reaches a temperature of x-1 or y+1 the machine will stop and an alarm go off. The machine will not wake up with a hangover, or argue with the Mrs before it goes to work. I'm not talking about the people who hand craft limited numbers of hooks here. Some of those, such as the ones made by my friend Jens Pilgard will be incomparable in quality, but you wouldn't be buying these in packs of 1000 or even 25. They are sold individually (and for much more than a pack of 25 regular hooks). For mass produced hooks that most of us use most of the time, machine made will be more consistent. In this area I found the "Handmade" was another thing to avoid if I could.